LNER App Shows Train Cancelled

[Angusbswheeler]

This afternoon I was due to travel from Darlington to Bury St Edmunds on an advance ticket on the 13:26, changing at Peterborough. I had also successfully obtained a Seatfrog upgrade.

This morning I received a notification from the LNER App that my train was cancelled due to it leaving Inverness two hours late and being terminated at Edinburgh. As I had plenty of notice I just booked seats on an earlier train, changing at Grantham, and caught the same train at Peterborough. The guard on my first train asked which train had been cancelled but didn't query my ticket or the upgrade.

When I got to Peterborough I was then surprised to see a LNER train pull in about the same time as my original train was due. On checking the National Rail app it appears that this was my original train, running to time, but starting from Edinburgh. The LNER app still showed the train being cancelled.

As I said, I wasn't quizzed too much by the guard on the first train, but where would I have stood, particularly with the upgrade, if he said that my train was in fact running and I should have been on it despite the LNER app showing it as cancelled?

 

[yorkie]

As I said, I wasn't quizzed too much by the guard on the first train, but where would I have stood, particularly with the upgrade, if he said that my train was in fact running and I should have been on it despite the LNER app showing it as cancelled?

You're entitled to act upon that information, and you'd not have any reason to not believe it, so I don't see how LNER could do anything to penalise you. (That said, I wouldn't be certain that some of their staff wouldn't try, sadly)

 

[Haywain]

On checking the National Rail app it appears that this was my original train, running to time, but starting from Edinburgh. The LNER app still showed the train being cancelled.

It was a train running in the path of your original train, but the original had been cancelled. This is a relatively normal contingency arrangement when the Inverness train suffers a significant delay.

 

[ainsworth74]

It was a train running in the path of your original train, but the original had been cancelled. This is a relatively normal contingency arrangement when the Inverness train suffers a significant delay.

Which makes it a shame that the LNER app cannot cater to the situation and correctly show the situation as it stands for the passenger on the ground (their train is, in fact, running) rather than the operational reality (the train has been cancelled, but a replacement has been arranged to run instead in the same path).

 

[sheff1]

It was a train running in the path of your original train, but the original had been cancelled. This is a relatively normal contingency arrangement when the Inverness train suffers a significant delay.

Quite, but as far as a passenger booked to travel from Darlington is concerned their train is not cancelled and LNER telling them it is, without caveat, could easily cause unecessary inconvenience and/or additional expenditure.

Which makes it a shame that the LNER app cannot cater to the situation and correctly show the situation as it stands for the passenger on the ground.

I turned off LNER notifications for this very reason as they showed no desire to change things.

 

[Haywain]

Which makes it a shame that the LNER app cannot cater to the situation and correctly show the situation as it stands for the passenger on the ground (their train is, in fact, running) rather than the operational reality (the train has been cancelled, but a replacement has been arranged to run instead in the same path).

But for the passenger from, for instance, Inverness the train has been cancelled as a through train to London and it is likely that the new train is unreserved, so how do the systems deal with both situations? In an ideal world it would inform passengers from Edinburgh and south thereof that a replacement train is running.

And I believe that the "problem" is not with the LNER app but the wider industry system, and that similar information would be disseminated through Trainsplit and others.

 

[ainsworth74]

But for the passenger from, for instance, Inverness the train has been cancelled as a through train to London and it is likely that the new train is unreserved, so how do the systems deal with both situations? In an ideal world it would inform passengers from Edinburgh and south thereof that a replacement train is running.

But this notification is triggered by the fact that the person in question has a booking from Darlington? Therefore the information needed to enable the correct information to be disseminated (that the person in question is travelling from a station where the train is not, in effect, cancelled) is available.

Even if it wasn't it's surely a presentational issue? From the passenger perspective the train is cancelled between Inverness and Edinburgh and running normally from there. The information that is therefore displayed to passengers should reflect that.

They don't care that operationally it's in fact not the same train.

And I believe that the "problem" is not with the LNER app but the wider industry system, and that similar information would be disseminated through Trainsplit and others.

Almost certainly, and it's a shame that the industry doesn't appear to care enough about making sure that passenger information isn't often driven by operational considerations rather than passenger needs.

 

[MrJeeves]

Darwin, the realtime passenger information system, simply has no method of being told "this service will actually be split into two, run by two different trains, today".

The only solution is to part-cancel one train, and introduce a Darwin-only service insertion (like a VSTP path, but for the information system) to take its place.

Darwin does have a feature called "train alerts", which allow notes to be left on a specific train. This could be (and may have been!) used in this case to add a message to the original train service to inform passengers that, while it is cancelled, a replacement train will run to the original timings from Edinburgh to London. But, I don't actually know how many Darwin consumer implementations actually support this field anyway.

 

[Angusbswheeler]

Thanks all. It does seem that the App needs to be able to cope with situations like this. On the place side I had to change trains at Grantham for the first time and found a nice pub on the platform

 

[30907]

The problem exists to my knowledge with the automated notifications issued by DB, OeBB and Trenitslia (and possibly ohers) which cause a great deal of confusion; however, the first two at least advise you to recheck your journey (and naturally that ticket restrictions are lifted).

 

[MrJeeves]

The problem exists to my knowledge with the automated notifications issued by DB, OeBB and Trenitslia (and possibly ohers) which cause a great deal of confusion; however, the first two at least advise you to recheck your journey (and naturally that ticket restrictions are lifted).

DB will at least usually have a message on the cancelled train saying a replacement train is running as [train number].

 

[The North Briton]

I note that the INV-EDB portion ran as 1E13 (the usual headcode) and the 1130 EDB-KGX ran as 1Z13. Would it not be better reflected in downstream systems if the starter from Edinburgh ran as 1E13 and the starter from Inverness (which is actually running two hours out of path) ran as 1Z13?

 

[D1537]

I note that the INV-EDB portion ran as 1E13 (the usual headcode) and the 1130 EDB-KGX ran as 1Z13. Would it not be better reflected in downstream systems if the starter from Edinburgh ran as 1E13 and the starter from Inverness (which is actually running two hours out of path) ran as 1Z13?

This seems to be standard operating procedure when a train is running in the place of one that is cancelled. I seem to remember someone saying on here that it was to do with a limitation of one of the systems (GSMR? I forget) not being able to cope with two trains with the same headcode timetabled in the same place? (I realise that 1Z13 would have left Edinburgh before 1E13 arrived).

 

[WAB]

I note that the INV-EDB portion ran as 1E13 (the usual headcode) and the 1130 EDB-KGX ran as 1Z13. Would it not be better reflected in downstream systems if the starter from Edinburgh ran as 1E13 and the starter from Inverness (which is actually running two hours out of path) ran as 1Z13?

Restarting a service often isn't decided until the first service has already started, so it wouldn't be practical to change the headcode mid-route. It would be good to have a function where the restarted train is recognised in retailing systems so the original doesn't show as cancelled on the CIS or on ticketing sites, and doesn't generate cancellation push notifications or emails.

 

[TUC]

This is yet another rail issue where fixing the technology hardly seems very complex to do.

 

[The North Briton]

Restarting a service often isn't decided until the first service has already started, so it wouldn't be practical to change the headcode mid-route. It would be good to have a function where the restarted train is recognised in retailing systems so the original doesn't show as cancelled on the CIS or on ticketing sites, and doesn't generate cancellation push notifications or emails.

In this case, it was decided the night before and seems standard practice whenever the Inverness service is unable to make its 0755 departure time due to crew rest period issues the previous night.
It used to be possible to send a replacement Guard up earlier to ensure a RT departure, but now the same driver works both the evening arrival and morning departure from Inverness, that won’t help.

 

[Tester]

DB will at least usually have a message on the cancelled train saying a replacement train is running as [train number].

I have certainly seen this with DB

 

[Deerfold]

A couple of weeks ago I had the same issue with my train from Tamworth.
The notification wasn't sent until I was on my previous train.
Nearly missed it at Tamworth as I said to work out what other options I had.
The lass sat opposite me had had the same notification. The original train had been cancelled but mine was already traveling from Birmingham by the time the notification was sent.

Their notifications are poor at the best of time.

They usually send me a seat reservation number, but only one number where more than one have been booked, so I still have to check online.

I often get a platform number less than a minute before the train leaves.