LNER announcements question

[Eastern Farmer]

I am very sorry if this is in the wrong section but I wasn’t really sure so sorry in advance to mods if you need to move it.

I am just wondering how announcements on LNER work as the I am trying to see if there is a difference in the location of Azuma announcements and 225 announcements to give me something to do on the journey. My uncle actually works for LNER but I text him yesterday and still awaiting a reply!

So my questions are:
1. Are the LNER announcements automatically triggered by gps or does the train manager or driver have to press a button and make them work?

2. If they are automatic is it fully automatic or does the train manager or driver have to do something to set the cycle off?

3. If they aren’t automatic is it the driver or TM that does it and do they have to do it at a certain location?

Sorry for the bombardment but like I say I asked me uncle and still waiting for a reply ( old people and phones don’t mix!) and just want to see if it’s worth it before actually taking time recording the information.

Thanks in advance to anyone who replies.

Edit: sorry if you read it before me fixing my appalling punctuation!

 

[800001]

I am very sorry if this is in the wrong section but I wasn’t really sure so sorry in advance to mods if you need to move it.

I am just wondering how announcements on LNER work as the I am trying to see if there is a difference in the location of Azuma announcements and 225 announcements to give me something to do on the journey. My uncle actually works for LNER but I text him yesterday and still awaiting a reply!

So my questions are:
1. Are the LNER announcements automatically triggered by gps or does the train manager or driver have to press a button and make them work?

2. If they are automatic is it fully automatic or does the train manager or driver have to do something to set the cycle off?

3. If they aren’t automatic is it the driver or TM that does it and do they have to do it at a certain location?

Sorry for the bombardment but like I say I asked me uncle and still waiting for a reply ( old people and phones don’t mix!) and just want to see if it’s worth it before actually taking time recording the information.

Thanks in advance to anyone who replies.

Edit: sorry if you read it before me fixing my appalling punctuation!

Automatic based off GPS for an Azuma, no involvement needed from the crew, other than inputting correct headcode before the start of the journey.

Intercity 225 I think they are all manual announcements done by the Train manager?

 

[Eastern Farmer]

Automatic based off GPS for an Azuma, no involvement needed from the crew, other than inputting correct headcode before the start of the journey.

Intercity 225 I think they are all manual announcements done by the Train manager?

Ah so it may be interesting to compare that then. Thanks mate for the help.

 

[Tim_UK]

Automatic based off GPS for an Azuma, no involvement needed from the crew, other than inputting correct headcode before the start of the journey.

Intercity 225 I think they are all manual announcements done by the Train manager?

I went to London on a 225 this morning and came back on an Azuma.

I think I agree with what you said. Automatic on azuma - or at least pre-recorded. Manual on 225.

 

[TreacleMiller]

Automatic based off GPS for an Azuma, no involvement needed from the crew, other than inputting correct headcode before the start of the journey.

Intercity 225 I think they are all manual announcements done by the Train manager?

This is correct. Its GPS based but does occasionally mess itself up.

Interestingly the system still announces station stops on ECS moves .

 

[800001]

This is correct. Its GPS based but does occasionally mess itself up.

Interestingly the system still announces station stops on ECS moves .

Yeah it messes up occasionally, eg this is the 1435 LNER service to Edinburgh, calling at Edinburgh, Darlington, Newcastle and Edinburgh.

 

[Ecmlleeds]

This is correct. Its GPS based but does occasionally mess itself up.

Interestingly the system still announces station stops on ECS moves .

Where have you heard auto announcements on an ECS move? I’ve never had it happen (I’m a TM). Curious to find out where it does it haha.

 

[stadler]

I am very sorry if this is in the wrong section but I wasn’t really sure so sorry in advance to mods if you need to move it.

I am just wondering how announcements on LNER work as the I am trying to see if there is a difference in the location of Azuma announcements and 225 announcements to give me something to do on the journey. My uncle actually works for LNER but I text him yesterday and still awaiting a reply!

So my questions are:
1. Are the LNER announcements automatically triggered by gps or does the train manager or driver have to press a button and make them work?

2. If they are automatic is it fully automatic or does the train manager or driver have to do something to set the cycle off?

3. If they aren’t automatic is it the driver or TM that does it and do they have to do it at a certain location?

Sorry for the bombardment but like I say I asked me uncle and still waiting for a reply ( old people and phones don’t mix!) and just want to see if it’s worth it before actually taking time recording the information.

Thanks in advance to anyone who replies.

Edit: sorry if you read it before me fixing my appalling punctuation!

The 800/801 automated announcements are all just automatically triggered. There is no need for the Guard to do anything to play them. They all play automatically. This is how almost all announcements work these days. The only thing that has to be done is entering a route code at the beginning of the journey so that the system knows the calling pattern. But once the route code is entered the announcements play for the entire journey based on GPS knowing where the train is.

So with the 800/801 automated announcements they are fully automatic with the exception of having to enter a code at the beginning of the journey so the system knows the calling pattern. But other than that no other human input is needed.

The MK4 trains do have automated announcements but they are almost never used these days. It is a very old Racal system. These announcements are all played by the Guard manually. To play them the Guard has to type in a code for the relevant announcement they wish to play. They are unable to announce stations so are only used for announcements regarding the buffet and the restaurant service and catering and ticket checks and various other generic announcements. There is an announcement regarding onboard telephones and phone cards which disappeared decades ago. The announcements are all out of date so Guards rarely use them plus most Guards have no idea what the codes are. Only the longer serving Guards might remember the codes.

The box where the Guard types the codes is in the buffet coach of the MK4 trains. This is a photo of it:



If you are interested i have attached some documents with the MK4 codes and scripts. This gives some more details about the system. It is a very old and obsolete system from British Rail days. But it does still work if the Guard knows the codes and chooses to use it.

 

[Eastern Farmer]

The 800/801 automated announcements are all just automatically triggered. There is no need for the Guard to do anything to play them. They all play automatically. This is how almost all announcements work these days. The only thing that has to be done is entering a route code at the beginning of the journey so that the system knows the calling pattern. But once the route code is entered the announcements play for the entire journey based on GPS knowing where the train is.

So with the 800/801 automated announcements they are fully automatic with the exception of having to enter a code at the beginning of the journey so the system knows the calling pattern. But other than that no other human input is needed.

The MK4 trains do have automated announcements but they are almost never used these days. It is a very old Racal system. These announcements are all played by the Guard manually. To play them the Guard has to type in a code for the relevant announcement they wish to play. They are unable to announce stations so are only used for announcements regarding the buffet and the restaurant service and catering and ticket checks and various other generic announcements. There is an announcement regarding onboard telephones and phone cards which disappeared decades ago. The announcements are all out of date so Guards rarely use them plus most Guards have no idea what the codes are. Only the longer serving Guards might remember the codes.

The box where the Guard types the codes is in the buffet coach of the MK4 trains. This is a photo of it:

View attachment 141950

If you are interested i have attached some documents with the MK4 codes and scripts. This gives some more details about the system. It is a very old and obsolete system from British Rail days. But it does still work if the Guard knows the codes and chooses to use it.

Wow, that is a very detailed reply, thanks mate. I will certainly download these and have a look through them. Very much appreciated!

 

[TreacleMiller]

Where have you heard auto announcements on an ECS move? I’ve never had it happen (I’m a TM). Curious to find out where it does it haha.

Certain default headcodes do it - was making me laugh driving ECS to the IEP from NL.

 

[BluePenguin]

This is correct. Its GPS based but does occasionally mess itself up.

Interestingly the system still announces station stops on ECS moves .

Which stations does it usually announce though?

 

[Northern_guard]

Certain default headcodes do it - was making me laugh driving ECS to the IEP from NL.

Pretty much all will do it if there's a station in between. Just easier to turn them all off.

 

[Harvey B]

Intercity 225 I think they are all manual announcements done by the Train manager?

I'm actually surprised that the Intercity 225's still have Manual Guard Announcements in 2023.

Are Automated Announcements not required for Rolling stock to be PRM Compliant?

 

[Deafdoggie]

I'm actually surprised that the Intercity 225's still have Manual Guard Announcements in 2023.

Are Automated Announcements not required for Rolling stock to be PRM Compliant?

PRM wasn't a thing when MK4 were introduced. It's not retrospective so they don't need it. And manual announcements are fine anyway.

 

[trebor79]

PRM wasn't a thing when MK4 were introduced. It's not retrospective so they don't need it. And manual announcements are fine anyway.

Why does PRM require automated announcements anyway? They are highly irritating and don't convey any information that a manual announcement does.

 

[infobleep]

The 800/801 automated announcements are all just automatically triggered. There is no need for the Guard to do anything to play them. They all play automatically. This is how almost all announcements work these days. The only thing that has to be done is entering a route code at the beginning of the journey so that the system knows the calling pattern. But once the route code is entered the announcements play for the entire journey based on GPS knowing where the train is.

So with the 800/801 automated announcements they are fully automatic with the exception of having to enter a code at the beginning of the journey so the system knows the calling pattern. But other than that no other human input is needed.

The MK4 trains do have automated announcements but they are almost never used these days. It is a very old Racal system. These announcements are all played by the Guard manually. To play them the Guard has to type in a code for the relevant announcement they wish to play. They are unable to announce stations so are only used for announcements regarding the buffet and the restaurant service and catering and ticket checks and various other generic announcements. There is an announcement regarding onboard telephones and phone cards which disappeared decades ago. The announcements are all out of date so Guards rarely use them plus most Guards have no idea what the codes are. Only the longer serving Guards might remember the codes.

The box where the Guard types the codes is in the buffet coach of the MK4 trains. This is a photo of it:

View attachment 141950

If you are interested i have attached some documents with the MK4 codes and scripts. This gives some more details about the system. It is a very old and obsolete system from British Rail days. But it does still work if the Guard knows the codes and chooses to use it.

I would love to hear a phone.card announcement on a service just for fun.

I'm old enough to have actually used a train phone when I was delayed once in the late 90s.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Why does PRM require automated announcements anyway? They are highly irritating and don't convey any information that a manual announcement does.

As far as I'm aware manual announcements are fine. But they just ensure the announcements are made if automated by GPS

 

[Harvey B]

PRM wasn't a thing when MK4 were introduced. It's not retrospective so they don't need it. And manual announcements are fine anyway.

I'm pretty sure that all rolling stock that weren't originally PRM compliant had to be made PRM compliant by the end of 2019.

And i'm also pretty sure that one of the requirements for PRM compliancy was the addition of Automated Announcements.

So doesn't that mean that LNER are technically running stock that isn't PRM compliant (and they have been doing for almost 4 years)?

Can someone correct me if I'm wrong?

 

[Deafdoggie]

I'm pretty sure that all rolling stock that weren't originally PRM compliant had to be made PRM compliant by the end of 2019.

And i'm also pretty sure that one of the requirements for PRM compliancy was the addition of Automated Announcements.

So doesn't that mean that LNER are technically running stock that isn't PRM compliant (and they have been doing for almost 4 years)?

Can someone correct me if I'm wrong?

I don't know railway industry requirements. In the bus/coach industry there was no requirement to reto fit equipment. Although if anything was replaced it had to be compliant. But there was a deadline to get rid of old non compliant buses, which got pushed back...and back...and back...till it was quietly dropped altogether. You still get, for example, buses with no wheelchair ramp turning up! But, due to their age, they are getting fewer and fewer.

 

[louis97]

I'm pretty sure that all rolling stock that weren't originally PRM compliant had to be made PRM compliant by the end of 2019.

And i'm also pretty sure that one of the requirements for PRM compliancy was the addition of Automated Announcements.

So doesn't that mean that LNER are technically running stock that isn't PRM compliant (and they have been doing for almost 4 years)?

Can someone correct me if I'm wrong?

As they were built prior to 1999 this does not seem to be the case, the legislation does not apply to them, have a read here: https://www.orr.gov.uk/guidance-com...y/passenger-safety/rail-vehicle-accessibility