LNER ‘Beavertail’ observation car

[alexl92]

The thread on the LNER Silver Jubilee Service reminded me about the beavertail observation car that was used by the LNER on some services. I just wondered if anyone has some info about it, and how it was used in operation - e.g. assuming it was always on the rear of the train, how was it turned and marshalled at the opposite end of a train after arriving in a terminus?

Also - am I correct to understand that one is preserved and under restoration?

Cheers

 

[Taunton]

It was turned on a turntable at each end. There were plenty about in those times. Likewise when it (the one now preserved) was later used in the 1950s in Scotland.

 

[eastdyke]

Some information here, including historical information, pictures and preservation detail.
From Railway Vehicle Preservations website:
http://www.rvp-ltd.org.uk/spbeaver.php
The last page update was 2010 so may not reflect the most up-to-date position!
Part quote:

In original condition at York in 1939 - photo courtesey of Kenneth Oldham and Rebuilt shape at Mallaig in 1967.

 

[Flying Phil]

There are two at least, preserved on the GCR. One has been restored and is in use. It is the later version with the larger, more "upright" rear window. These were converted for use on the Scottish "Scenic" routes. It can be hired for party use and appears on special gala weekends.
The other is being restored in the original "sloping" Silver Jubilee style........and could appear later this year??

 

[hexagon789]

Silver Jubilee style

Sorry to be pedantic but the Silver Jubilee never conveyed an Observation Car.

 

[hexagon789]

To clarify the LNER built 2 Streamlined Observation cars both for use on the King's Cross to Edinburgh streamliner The 'Coronation'. Neither The 'Silver Jubilee' nor 'West Riding Limited' conveyed one.

The Observation Cars were conveyed only in Summer Months and sat 16 persons. Over half the cars was actually van space and they provided a useful increase in luggage space for the summer months as much as an extra amenity for passengers.

They were not conveyed in Winter for 3 reasons:
1. Not as much need for extra van space in Winter
2. With the afternoon departures you couldn't see much in the winter anyway
3. The reduction in weight aided with maintaining the schedule in adverse weather.

 

[Flying Phil]

Thanks for the correction Hexagon789.

 

[hexagon789]

Thanks for the correction Hexagon789.

Hope I didn't come across as blunt. Tbh I think the main reason for the Observation Cars was as much the additional van space as anythng else.

 

[Flying Phil]

Hope I didn't come across as blunt. Tbh I think the main reason for the Observation Cars was as much the additional van space as anythng else.

Presumably there was also an aerodynamic advantage, which would be a factor - given the 70 mph average speeds.

 

[hexagon789]

Presumably there was also an aerodynamic advantage, which would be a factor - given the 70 mph average speeds.

Yes, they reckoned the streamlined tail saved 35hp at 100 mph.

 

[alexl92]

Thanks everyone, very interesting. Was it only the LNER and GWR who used observation cars?

It was turned on a turntable at each end. There were plenty about in those times. Likewise when it (the one now preserved) was later used in the 1950s in Scotland.

So I imagine they’d have had to remove the whole set from the station, uncouple the obs car, turn it and marshall it on the other end - you couldn’t do it with the set in place could you?

 

[Cowley]

Thanks everyone, very interesting. Was it only the LNER and GWR who used observation cars?



So I imagine they’d have had to remove the whole set from the station, uncouple the obs car, turn it and marshall it on the other end - you couldn’t do it with the set in place could you?

It was actually the Southern that used observation cars, I’m assuming you meant the Devon Belle? Which was a Waterloo to Ilfracombe/Plymouth Pullman service.
I’m not sure if the observation car did the whole run from Waterloo, does anyone know?
Both Devon Belle observation cars survive - one at Swanage and one on the Dartmouth Steam Railway. I think they also saw use on the Kyle of Lochalsh line in BR days.

 

[Taunton]

So I imagine they’d have had to remove the whole set from the station, uncouple the obs car, turn it and marshall it on the other end - you couldn’t do it with the set in place could you?

Different world then. Pilot loco (every station had one) on the back, pull off the obs, push onto turntable, turn it, pull back, push it into adjacent platform, then pull rest of formation out and push onto obs. Only then is the train loco released from the buffers.

The Coronation at Kings Cross did not return until the next day so this could be done in the yard. The alternative is to turn the whole train on a triangle/loop. This could have been done at Edinburgh, round the Abbeyhill triangle, but no convenient way to do it at the Kings Cross end.

 

[gilbert123]

the LNWR also used obs cars , although I don't know how many .-on the Holyhead route I believe , and I think I have seen pics of one (them) on the West Highland
one survives in LNWR livery on the Bluebell .you can travel on it for a small supplement . quite an interesting experience seeing the engine just a few feet away on the return to Sheffield Park

 

[30907]

It was actually the Southern that used observation cars, I’m assuming you meant the Devon Belle? Which was a Waterloo to Ilfracombe/Plymouth Pullman service.
I’m not sure if the observation car did the whole run from Waterloo, does anyone know?
Both Devon Belle observation cars survive - one at Swanage and one on the Dartmouth Steam Railway. I think they also saw use on the Kyle of Lochalsh line in BR days.

The Belle cars went on the table at Ilfracombe, so did the whole run.

 

[Cowley]

The Belle cars went on the table at Ilfracombe, so did the whole run.

Thanks 30907.

 

[Taunton]

The 1940s-50s Devon Belle was Pullman cars, at that time an independent company. Like many obs cars they were a conversion, more easily done with wooden-frame vehicles. They ran in Scotland in the 1960s, and one then went to the USA on the well-known Flying Scotsman trip, and got left in San Francisco when the loco came back. I never traced it there (anyone know the address it was at? I've a hunch it may have been at one of the onetime Victoria Station chain themed restaurants), but it was repatriated a few years ago. Here's a photo of it there.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120609192504/http://www.swanagerailway.co.uk/apmw/dbpoc14/dbpoc01.jpg

 

[Cowley]

The 1940s-50s Devon Belle was Pullman cars, at that time an independent company. Like many obs cars they were a conversion, more easily done with wooden-frame vehicles. They ran in Scotland in the 1960s, and one then went to the USA on the well-known Flying Scotsman trip, and got left in San Francisco when the loco came back. I never traced it there (anyone know the address it was at?), but it was repatriated a few years ago. Here's a photo of it there.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120609192504/http://www.swanagerailway.co.uk/apmw/dbpoc14/dbpoc01.jpg

I’m pretty sure it ended up ( maybe at Fisherman’s Wharf) in San Francisco? Being possibly used as a diner, and I’ve got a feeling that I might have seen it there in the 90s.

 

[Steamysandy]

The Caledonian Railway had a Pullman observation car named Maid of Morven which was used on the Oban line from Glasgow via Stirling.
It passed to the LMS and was scrapped in the early 1930s when the Pullman contract ended.