LNE ticket almost refused

[jthjth]

Just travelling a on a LNE (London St Pancras Eurostar) to Leicester. The pdf ticket shows departure at 1249, but that is timed from Eurostar. In very small print below in the itinerary section it shows 1305 departure from the EMR platforms. Unfortunately the bar code reads 1249 to the on board ticket inspector who then claimed we were on the wrong train. Curiously the Apple wallet ticket shows 1305 in the exact same field as the pdf ticket shows 1249. Inspector was happy when he saw the Appleg ticket. Purchased from Trainsplit.

 

[kacper]

This would be EMR (East Midlands Railway), for your reference

 

[AlterEgo]

There is no 1249 departure to Leicester anyway, something I’d hope the guard would pick up on.

 

[jthjth]

There is no 1249 departure to Leicester anyway, something I’d hope the guard would pick up on.

I think a contributing factor is using the 1st class catering host to check tickets.

 

[AlterEgo]

I think a contributing factor is using the 1st class catering host to check tickets.

Ah, yes - they are very well-meaning but I am not sure some are particularly clued up with some of the finer details.

 

[jthjth]

Ah, yes - they are very well-meaning but I am not sure some are particularly clued up with some of the finer details.

I think my real question is why the pdf shows misleading information but the Apple pass is more helpful.

 

[MrJeeves]

The PDF ticket should also show this quite clearly without the need for a wallet pass.



Or the other style of PDF being phased out:

 

[jthjth]

The PDF ticket should also show this quite clearly without the need for a wallet pass.

View attachment 166935

Or the other style of PDF being phased out:

View attachment 166936

Yes, close examination does show the above. But the depart 1249 bit is what confused the inspector. The bar code also returns 1249. On the wallet pass it shows 1305 in the depart field. Not sure how 1249 is generated given a walk 1 minute instruction.

 

[MrJeeves]

Yes, close examination does show the above. But the depart 1249 bit is what confused the inspector. The bar code also returns 1249. On the wallet pass it shows 1305 in the depart field. Not sure how 1249 is generated given a walk 1 minute instruction.

Departing 1249 is correct as this field is meant to display the departure time for the first leg of the itinerary, which would be the walk.

The 1 minute walk refers to the transfer from LNE to St Pancras, but there is also the 15 minute minimum connection time at St Pancras which means the walk starts 16 minutes before your train departs.

 

[AdamWW]

Yes, close examination does show the above. But the depart 1249 bit is what confused the inspector. The bar code also returns 1249. On the wallet pass it shows 1305 in the depart field. Not sure how 1249 is generated given a walk 1 minute instruction.

1 minute walk followed by a 15 minute connection time?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

1 minute walk followed by a 15 minute connection time?

Yes. The idea (I assume) is that St Pancras is a complicated place, and once you have arrived in it, it will take you up to 15 minutes to find your train.

And most minimum connections are generous, to allow for people of limited mobility and limited understanding of how a given railway station works.

 

[swt_passenger]

I wonder why the ticket checker didn’t realise as soon as he saw LNE as the origin that he wasn’t actually looking at a normal ticket from St Pancras, which would have been shown as STP. Looks like a training failure to me.

 

[Haywain]

The idea (I assume) is that St Pancras is a complicated place, and once you have arrived in it, it will take you up to 15 minutes to find your train.

That could quite easily happen if you take a wrong turning coming out of the Eurostar area.

 

[jthjth]

That could quite easily happen if you take a wrong turning coming out of the Eurostar area.

In more positive news, nobody questioned why I had an LNE ticket or demanded to see Eurostar tickets (in either direction). Though the delay repay I’m claiming for the trip to London seems to have gone off for “further quality assurance checks”. The train was held for 20 minutes at Leicester for fitters to release someone trapped in the toilet due to a jammed door. Hope they weren’t stuck from Sheffield….
Maybe they are going to claim I wasn’t late to LNE because of the 15 minute interchange time.

 

[Haywain]

Maybe they are going to claim I wasn’t late to LNE because of the 15 minute interchange time.

Well, the delay is to your overall journey and with a 'London International' ticket there was undoubtedly a longer journey so, if you caught your scheduled Eurostar service, they might say that.

 

[jthjth]

Well, the delay is to your overall journey and with a 'London International' ticket there was undoubtedly a longer journey so, if you caught your scheduled Eurostar service, they might say that.

Interestingly for the trip to LNE the itinerary only mentions the 1 minute walk to London International (CIV). No mention of the 15 minute interchange time. My guess is that the automated delay repay system doesn’t know about LNE.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Oct 2024 ==

Interestingly for the trip to LNE the itinerary only mentions the 1 minute walk to London International (CIV). No mention of the 15 minute interchange time. My guess is that the automated delay repay system doesn’t know about LNE.

The first class LNE ticket is only £19.80 with a rail card. It has just occurred to me that buying the cheapest Eurostar ticket (£34 if I remember correctly) and not using it would possibly make a cheaper 1st class ticket to London than a normal one to St Pancras!

 

[Adam Williams]

Unfortunately the bar code reads 1249 to the on board ticket inspector who then claimed we were on the wrong train

The exact retail service identifier (RSID) you had a reservation on should've also been encoded into the barcode, which a correctly configured handheld scanning device should understand to match the train that the staff were stood on.

 

[WesternLancer]

The exact retail service identifier (RSID) you had a reservation on should've also been encoded into the barcode, which a correctly configured handheld scanning device should understand to match the train that the staff were stood on.

If it was a service host that did the check it may have just been visual check of ticket. Not a scanning device.

 

[AdamWW]

If it was a service host that did the check it may have just been visual check of ticket. Not a scanning device.

The first post said:

Unfortunately the bar code reads 1249 to the on board ticket inspector who then claimed we were on the wrong train. Curiously the Apple wallet ticket shows 1305 in the exact same field as the pdf ticket shows 1249. Inspector was happy when he saw the Appleg ticket. Purchased from Trainsplit.

 

[WesternLancer]

The first post said:

Ah ok. Thanks.

 

[jthjth]

Ah ok. Thanks.

Just for clarity, the inspector did scan the bar code, then looked at the scanner and then very politely said we were on the wrong train. He reluctantly agreed with my point of view when I showed him the itinerary on my paper print out of the pdf and was very happy when I showed him the Apple pass (which showed the correct train time). He then said it must be a faulty bar code. Whether he was reading his device incorrectly or whether it was displaying incorrect information I cannot say.

Ah ok. Thanks.

 

[island]

EMR train managers perform some duties which might on other TOCs be the preserve of first class hosts, so it was almost certainly the train manager.

 

[jthjth]

EMR train managers perform some duties which might on other TOCs be the preserve of first class hosts, so it was almost certainly the train manager.

I doubt it. The inspector/host was quite young. Meanwhile we were getting lots of announcements about the train terminating at Leicester because of too many faulty engines.

 

[LowLevel]

EMR train managers perform some duties which might on other TOCs be the preserve of first class hosts, so it was almost certainly the train manager.

EMR first class hosts check all tickets in first class, in case of dispute they're meant to refer any issues to the train manager to deal with. A tiny number of train managers will check first class themselves but it's very few. They often do help with the tea trolley though!

 

[WesternLancer]

EMR first class hosts check all tickets in first class, in case of dispute they're meant to refer any issues to the train manager to deal with. A tiny number of train managers will check first class themselves but it's very few. They often do help with the tea trolley though!

Definitely experience this. If I want a weekend first the host notes my seat then usually gives refreshments, TM comes down later to sort the ticket.

 

[OscarH]

Just for clarity, the inspector did scan the bar code, then looked at the scanner and then very politely said we were on the wrong train. He reluctantly agreed with my point of view when I showed him the itinerary on my paper print out of the pdf and was very happy when I showed him the Apple pass (which showed the correct train time). He then said it must be a faulty bar code. Whether he was reading his device incorrectly or whether it was displaying incorrect information I cannot say.

I think calling it a faulty barcode is a rather bold statement for the inspector to make!

From a technical perspective it is an interesting one - walks are an interesting case, and it's a tad ambiguous. However on re-reading it all, I think the implementation is correct to encode 12:49. I think it's the Apple Wallet ticket that's potentially dodgy saying 13:05. I do think that as @MrJeeves posted above, the newer style itineraries make this clearer and hopefully they'd be happier with that style on the PDF. I've helpfully changed my mind immediately after posting. The official answer is ambiguous, and the below definitely still applies, but I'm inclined to change the implementation to ignore the "walk" mode only.

I don't know which scanning app EMR use, but on the most popular one at least the service ID (which is correct in your ticket) is at least as prominent as the depart time, and really that should have immediately been the end of it without needing to look at the PDF itinerary or the Apple Wallet ticket.

 

[800001]

This would be EMR (East Midlands Railway), for your reference

The OP is referring to the ticket, LNE is a Eurostar CIV ticket.

 

[infobleep]

That could quite easily happen if you take a wrong turning coming out of the Eurostar area.

It happened to me and I missed a train. My first train was late due to Thameslink disruption.

A member of gateline staff was carefully checking though to make sure I wasn't trying it on. I could have made the train if I'd run, once I had taken a wrong turning but I chose not to run.

I do think when switching between trains at London St Pancras the connection time should be added to the walking time. After all it is the same station complex.