LMS-owned canals

[SargeNpton]

I owned SANDBACH for several years. The crimson lake livery which it carries is not original and I did consider repainting her in original grey and black for authenticity but decided against it.

SANDBACH is the only surviving steel LMS tug afloat, BEESTON being on the bank in a very poor condition. A wooden tug ROAMER also survives. SANDBACH was built for heavy maintenance work on the Shroppie canal when the embankments were showing signs of distress. Within 12 months she was transferred to the Weaver where towing huge barges with a 25ft tug was considered dangerous and the union insisted she was lengthened to 35ft before use.

Ah, brilliant to get a bit more information from a previous owner.

 

[John Luxton]

And the Burry Port and Gwendraeth Valley

And don't forget the Liskeard and Looe, much of teh route being converted into the Liskeard and Looe Railway - sections of the the canal can still be observed from the train where it deviated from the railway track includinga couple of locks.

 

[furnessvale]

My bold

Perhaps this was because the MS&L didn't have a rail route into the area? Probably would have been opposed by the L&NWR if they had proposed one.

A similar sentiment saw canal to rail trans-shipment basins in the Birmingham area where the GWR and LMS overlapped.

 

[Dr Hoo]

A similar sentiment saw canal to rail trans-shipment basins in the Birmingham area where the GWR and LMS overlapped.

It was a bit more complicated than that. The London & North Western Railway was granted a ‘perpetual lease’ of the Birmingham Canal Navigation by Act of Parliament as early as 1846. The railway never ‘owned’ the canal.
Because much of the West Midlands industry pre-dated main line railways the dense canal network gave immediate access without building lots of branch lines.
The lease also ensured that neither the Great Western nor Midland could buy or take over the canals to build competing lines. So the GWR and MR had to have their own additional interchange basins and give money to the L&NWR for the ‘last mile’ on water. Win, win!
Because the canals were largely on one of two extensive ‘levels’ with no locks to negotiate for most trips they were remarkably efficient for short trips with no signal boxes, shunting engines and whatnot.
The canal network continued to expand for quite a while. The Cannock Extension was the last significant narrow canal to be built, in the 1860s. It was constructed just like a railway - straight and with ‘blue’ engineering brick structures.

The canals of the West Midlands were like no others and continued to carry millions of tons of traffic well into the 20th century.

 

[billh]

Co-incident with this thread, there will be a small part, about 15%, of an LMS station (goods)boat installed at Marple later this year as an outdoor seating area. Aficionados of railway boats will be able to discuss at length its original name within its hull!

 

[Rescars]

The canals of the West Midlands were like no others and continued to carry millions of tons of traffic well into the 20th century.

I recall being told tales of some of these canal operations in their latter days. Apparently at least one firm opened a factory post-WW2 manufacturing nuts and bolts which had freight access by canal only. The butty used to transfer the factory's output to the transhipment point was powered by a solo "bargee" who hauled it with a rope to the end of the spur where an "oss" would be waiting patiently to continue the good work!

 

[AndrewE]

A similar sentiment saw canal to rail trans-shipment basins in the Birmingham area where the GWR and LMS overlapped.

It was a bit more complicated than that. The London & North Western Railway was granted a ‘perpetual lease’ of the Birmingham Canal Navigation by Act of Parliament as early as 1846. The railway never ‘owned’ the canal.
Because much of the West Midlands industry pre-dated main line railways the dense canal network gave immediate access without building lots of branch lines.
The lease also ensured that neither the Great Western nor Midland could buy or take over the canals to build competing lines. So the GWR and MR had to have their own additional interchange basins and give money to the L&NWR for the ‘last mile’ on water. Win, win!
Because the canals were largely on one of two extensive ‘levels’ with no locks to negotiate for most trips they were remarkably efficient for short trips with no signal boxes, shunting engines and whatnot.
The canal network continued to expand for quite a while. The Cannock Extension was the last significant narrow canal to be built, in the 1860s. It was constructed just like a railway - straight and with ‘blue’ engineering brick structures.

The canals of the West Midlands were like no others and continued to carry millions of tons of traffic well into the 20th century.

see post #23...

 

[Acathater]

So - we have canals owned by the LMS and the LNER. The GWR owned the Kenneth & Avon and (by then defunct but still watered) Somersetshire Coal Canal at least; any SR-constituent owned canals as actual going concerns?

Wiki entry for the Rolle canal in Devon says:

In 1871 the canal was closed and sold to the London and South Western Railway to form the trackway of the proposed new railway from Bideford to Torrington. At one point the railway company wished to abandon the project but at Mark Rolle's insistence the railway was built.The track followed the canal in several stretches, not sitting within the former canal but on elevated ground beside it. The railway was dismantled during the 20th century and the trackway now forms part of the Tarka Trail cycleway.

Rolle Canal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So it's clear the LSWR purchased the canal and probably abandoned it but unclear as to how far dismantling proceeded

 

[Dr Hoo]

The Thames & Medway Canal, famous for the Strood and Higham Tunnels, was effectively purchased by the South Eastern Railway Railay. After a period of shared use through the tunnels (!) the railway took over the tunnels completely but the western rump became the Gravesend & Higham Canal, including Denton Wharf. This remained owned and operated by railway companies through to the Southern Railway until closure in 1934.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Wiki entry for the Rolle canal in Devon says:

Rolle Canal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So it's clear the LSWR purchased the canal and probably abandoned it but unclear as to how far dismantling proceeded

In Cornwall, the Newquay branch runs on the former towpath of the Par Canal between St. Blazey and Pontsmill. The canal still exists for drainage purposes but is not navigable.

In Ireland the (former) M & GW Galway main line runs parallel to the Royal Canal from Dublin to Mullingar and suffers speed-wise from the excessive twists and turns. Galway trains are now routed via Tullamore.

 

[ThirteenArches]

The OP mentioned the Shropshire Union... at the time, that included not just the Shroppie mainline and the Chester Canal, but also the whole of what is now the Llangollen, the Montgomery Canal, the Weston Lullingfields branch which was originally intended to be the mainline between the Severn and the Mersey, and the Shrewsbury Canal. Plus a handful of branches here and there. We were lucky to keep the Llangollen, largely due to its use as water supply for Crewe.

 

[6Gman]

I owned SANDBACH for several years. The crimson lake livery which it carries is not original and I did consider repainting her in original grey and black for authenticity but decided against it.

SANDBACH is the only surviving steel LMS tug afloat, BEESTON being on the bank in a very poor condition. A wooden tug ROAMER also survives. SANDBACH was built for heavy maintenance work on the Shroppie canal when the embankments were showing signs of distress. Within 12 months she was transferred to the Weaver where towing huge barges with a 25ft tug was considered dangerous and the union insisted she was lengthened to 35ft before use.

Are you able to tell us where BEESTON is?

£109m lottery tonight.

Asking for a friend with a ticket. And an interest in the LMS and canals.

 

[furnessvale]

Are you able to tell us where BEESTON is?

£109m lottery tonight.

Asking for a friend with a ticket. And an interest in the LMS and canals.

Beeston is owned by CRT and is kept in a warehouse near Ellesmere Port museum along with other old boats that they cannot repair due to lack of funds!

If you win, slip me a few quid and I will try and prise LINDA out of Malcolm Burge's hands for myself!