LM's description of their "first-class"

[OwlMan]

I also question the logic of a Birmingham to London First Class season ticket costing £7876/yr and a Milton Keynes to London First Class season ticket costing £6836/yr.

That is because LM charge the same for London Seasons for the stations between Rugby & Stafford (both the Trent Valley & West Midland lines) and most if not all Stations in the Network WM area.
The moral of the story is do not buy your LM Only London Season from Rugby, Coventry , Nuneaton, Birmingham etc but from Stafford.

 

[GodAtum]

It used to be standard practice on most trains, except for BCKs, which were often used as through coaches. There were two reasons for this. It is nearer the booking office/waiting room/footbridge at most stations and it is safer in the event of a crash (values of the time determin who gets the safest place). Presumably, on expresses, it was also convenient for the restaurant car (second class passengers could pass through the corridor of an FK). Later, they started putting it at the city end on expresses, because it was more convenient for the terminus and you can put the buffet in-between the two classes. Since EMUs can run either way round (and often do) but tend not to have buffets, some designers put first in the middle because it's traditional.

I hate when they do that. For example, if I am travelling in first on SWT I can only guess where the first class section will be. If it's a 10 coach I can reasonably assume its a 445 so the 1st class will be on the London bound end. If it's a 8 or 12 coach then it's pot luck.

Same with FCC on their 319s 1st is sometime at the front, sometimes at the back!

 

[jopsuk]

Same with FCC on their 319s 1st is sometime at the front, sometimes at the back!

With Greater Anglia West Anglia route 317s, on a 4 car train 1st class can be in any one of the 4 carriages, depending on whether it is a /6 (/7 previously as well) where it is at one end (marked with a black triangle on the cab end) or a /5 or /8, where it is in the non-driving trailer (carriage 2 or 3).

So for an 8 car, you've got even more variety!

 

[Badger]

The answer is to boycott it. If nobody buys it they'll have to get rid of first class. There must be people buying first class tickets, otherwise it would make no sense to keep it there, and if they're willing to pay extra for basically nothing, it's frankly their problem and their fault (not counting first time users of course). Until people protest and stop paying these fares I don't see why London Midland would do anything at all about it.

A lot of people seem to buy First Class just to be seperated from the plebs anyway and not for the extra features. If their prejudices will subsidise cheaper services for everyone else so be it.

(I don't mean that as antagonistic-against-rich-people as it sounds, I really mean that if people are happy to pay over the odds for something like this, they're more than welcome to if it means everyone else gets something from it.)

Although I suspect given the poor service the majority of tickets must be first time users duped into it.. Would be interesting to see figures for first class season tickets.

One uh, "good thing" about first class being in the middle of the train is that at 4c on New Street everyone stops before first class and doesn't walk through, which means if you walk to the very end of the platform and get on those carriages are normally empty

 

[stut]

Is there an ORCATS element to some First Class accommodation? I imagine FCC, for example, could do quite well out of a cut of the first class fares to Peterborough and Bedford...

 

[calc7]

Is there an ORCATS element to some First Class accommodation? I imagine FCC, for example, could do quite well out of a cut of the first class fares to Peterborough and Bedford...

Yes - I was about to post this.
Just by having accommodation designated "First Class", LM gets a share of the very lucrative WCML pot. Whether or not people actually use it makes no difference. It's presumably the same reason TPE are so keen to keep theirs.

 

[telstarbox]

TPE first is well-used though and they provide the only FC on some flows.

 

[calc7]

TPE first is well-used though and they provide the only FC on some flows.

Isn't that the case for LM though? How do I travel First Class between Wolverton and Nuneaton if not with them?

 

[stut]

True, but TP first class is actually pretty good - 2+1 seating, decent at-seat service, and well-priced Advance fares.

 

[Butts]

True, but TP first class is actually pretty good - 2+1 seating, decent at-seat service, and well-priced Advance fares.

Pretty good you must be kidding - it's crap compared to East Coast and they often have better fares than TPE on a lot of routes :roll:

 

[All Line Rover]

Pretty good you must be kidding - it's crap compared to East Coast and they often have better fares than TPE on a lot of routes :roll:

Now that is harsh. TPE are a commuter franchise, not an intercity franchise. By commuter standards their First Class accommodation is excellent - 2+1 seating with very comfortable, reclining seats. Compare that to Southern or Southeastern! (Or, to get back on topic, London Midland!)

East Coast are cheaper than TPE north of York for the simple reason that they have far more spare capacity. TPE prices on the central belt are very good value - e.g. Manchester to York starts at £7 Standard Class, £13 First Class. I can get a £15 fare for travel tomorrow, which is incredibly short notice. What's the cheapest East Coast First Class fare from York to Edinburgh tomorrow? £83! So I think you're being far too critical of TPE.

 

[infobleep]

*Except when First Class is cheaper than Standard Class, which happens on almost every peak service when booking at short notice, again devaluing their First Class accommodation!

I recently went to see Bruce Springsteen in Manchester and a conference in Leeds the following day.

Although the cheapest option would be to travel up on the Friday morning, I decided to travel from Euston after work. I went via London Midland as far as Stoke on Trent. I was surprised to find the first class cheaper

In fact the train I came I on from Harrow and Wealdstone formed the train I left on. I just moved from standard to first class. I was grateful of the power socket.

I had read on a poster at Euston that it was a train with standing room only, this being the 18.27. However it wasn't as busy as that at all so either I got a lucky night, being a Friday evening or the poster was simply wrong,

Also my revision ticket under the coach and seat section has some stars. I asked a member of the gate line staff what it meant and he didn't know. As for checking tickets. That didn't happen until we were passed Atherstone if not a couple of stations after that! On other trains of other companies I have seen guards go to first class and say they are checking tickets. When they leave and end up in standard class I try to show them my one, after all they did state they were checking tickets. They check it but seem disinterested as if to say I'm not actually checking tickets right now. Admitted this one happened once.

I was on a 9.34 SWT train service from Guildford to London recently and the guard apologised for one set of carriages not having first class. I went to inspect and found the area to he busy with standard class seating. It got me that if there had been two first class areas, both may have been fairly empty and more passengers would have been standing!

Of course I can't imagine being a first class passenger travelling from Clapham Junction to Pool on the 18.46 would be much fun. It only has 5 carriages. You'd get a seat at Waterloo but the problem is that Waterloo boarded passengers take up every seat to at least as far as Woking, so you'd end up standing no doubt.

Of course any first class ticket on SWT to Clapham Junction is a joke, given that during peak rush hour they can't stop any fast first class trains there. Not sure if any slow trains have first class?

Then there are the ticket restrictions. Standard anytime and first class anytime allow you to travel to London at anytime. Standard class off peak allows you to travel after varying times in the morning and also in the evening peak. However first class off peak doesn't allow you to travel in the evening rush hour. So one is paying more for a lesser service. Note there is no super off peak first class.

 

[furryfeet]

Note there is no super off peak first class.

Agreed. The absence of any "off peak / super off peak" 1st class tickets on LM means that I am deterred from using 1st class. I only travel once a month and that is after 0930, so I go for the same approach as AllLineRover and find a 2nd class priority seat with loads of legroom.

Perchance this will change if LM get permission to run further north up the WCML to Preston and beyound in the future. I would be interested to know if this is a possibility, given the rejection of the Alliance Rail application to run from Euston to Blackpool.

 

[All Line Rover]

Agreed. The absence of any "off peak / super off peak" 1st class tickets on LM means that I am deterred from using 1st class.

Crewe to Euston "LM Only" First Off-Peak Return - £55 return.

Birmingham to Euston "LM Only" First Off-Peak Return - £45 return.

Off-Peak LM First Class fares do exist now, but not on the Liverpool to Birmingham route, which is odd.

 

[GodAtum]

Of course any first class ticket on SWT to Clapham Junction is a joke, given that during peak rush hour they can't stop any fast first class trains there. Not sure if any slow trains have first class?

i go the opposite direction in the morning, Clapham - Guildford and it is still surprising busy not sure where all these people are going.

 

[jaigee]

Also my revision ticket under the coach and seat section has some stars. I asked a member of the gate line staff what it meant and he didn't know.

It's because L.M. do not now do actual seat resevations, you are only booked on that particular service. The ticket template just puts stars in lieu of seat and coach numbers.

As for checking tickets. That didn't happen until we were passed Atherstone if not a couple of stations after that! On other trains of other companies I have seen guards go to first class and say they are checking tickets. When they leave and end up in standard class I try to show them my one, after all they did state they were checking tickets. They check it but seem disinterested as if to say I'm not actually checking tickets right now. Admitted this one happened once.

L.M. ticket checks are sparse to say the least, I regularly use both their Crewe and Liverpool services, checks in first class usually occur on about 30-40% of services if your lucky, or unlucky as the case may be!

 

[rail-britain]

It's because L.M. do not now do actual seat resevations, you are only booked on that particular service. The ticket template just puts stars in lieu of seat and coach numbers

I discussed this with LM when booking my First Class ALR
I therefore didn't see the point of making a Seat Reservation as it was not seat specific and on boarding you can end up in any seat

The next issue was what happens if you board and all the seats are already taken, the Seat Reservation is pointless
It would appear you then sit in Standard (if you can get a seat, as First Class is already full) and then claim a half refund as all the seats are taken

 

[Butts]

Now that is harsh. TPE are a commuter franchise, not an intercity franchise. By commuter standards their First Class accommodation is excellent - 2+1 seating with very comfortable, reclining seats. Compare that to Southern or Southeastern! (Or, to get back on topic, London Midland!)

East Coast are cheaper than TPE north of York for the simple reason that they have far more spare capacity. TPE prices on the central belt are very good value - e.g. Manchester to York starts at £7 Standard Class, £13 First Class. I can get a £15 fare for travel tomorrow, which is incredibly short notice. What's the cheapest East Coast First Class fare from York to Edinburgh tomorrow? £83! So I think you're being far too critical of TPE.

On reflection your comparison with LM and the Southern based Commuter traffic is probably accurate, and lets not even mention Northern and their complete lack of First Class and boneshaker services.

However when booking longer distances on my jaunts from FKG to Northern English Cities East Coast are often cheaper and obviously better (not just a Coffee and a Bun). This I do well in advance obviously

 

[Smudger105e]

Please be sure to let us know what kind of response you receive!

Dear Mr Smith

Thank you for your e-mail and for bringing the issues regarding the seats on our services to our attention.

I have forwarded your comments onto our Health and Safety Department so that they are aware of this issue and can investigate it. I will email you back when I receive a response from them regarding their plans on how to improve the situation.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us and also again for bring this to our attention.

Yours sincerely,

********* ******
Customer Relations Advisor

London Midland, P O Box 4323, Birmingham, B2 4QT

Have only blanked the name as I don't have the writer's permission to publish it on a public forum.