LM Crosscity Line Overshoot

[williamus]

At Northfield waiting the service to Lichfield TV which overshot the station and came to rest 400 yards away by the slow up signal (at green). After 10 minutes it carried on towards Kings Norton. Rail conditions look pretty dreadful but he didn't look as though he was trying to break. Typical LM apology said "delay was caused by congestion due to earlier delays"

The next service arrived 18 minutes late and proceeded gingerly towards New Street. Might be a difficult afternoon.

 

[headshot119]

The Cross City Line is notorious for it's poor rail head conditions during the leaf fall season, and that's why LM introduce (Or at least used to) a special leaf fall time table to take this into account.

As for it not looking like he was going to stop; If all the axles lock up, it won't look like he's breaking as the whole train is sliding along the rails, which is not a nice feeling for a driver.

 

[notadriver]

Come on people - braking - not breaking. What is the world coming to ?

 

[GadgetMan]

If the Driver wasn't trying to brake then he wouldn't have come to a stand 400 yards past the platform.

 

[GB]

Rail conditions look pretty dreadful but he didn't look as though he was trying to break.
.

How on earth could you come to that conclusion?

 

[the sniper]

How on earth could you come to that conclusion?

They weren't screaming or attempting to throw an anchor out of the window...?

Northfield on the Up is particularly bad at times due to the bushes between Longbridge and Northfield, they are so close to the line the they brush along the side of the unit when rain has dragged them down a bit.

Possible scenario, driver followed a RHTT on the Down line before turning back at Longbridge. Without the benefit of the RHTT going though there'd be considerably less grip on the return, and the first place that'd be discovered would be in braking for Northfield.

 

[Manchester77]

Isn't the cross city line operated by 323s and if so aren't they some of the worst units for slipping during leaf fall season?

 

[carriageline]

Another thread by someone with zero common sense or knowledge of how things work

How do you know he "didn't try braking"?

 

[sprinterguy]

Isn't the cross city line operated by 323s and if so aren't they some of the worst units for slipping during leaf fall season?

In my experience they seem to be particularly sensitive to leaf fall, yes.

 

[YorkshireBear]

They are even sensitive to Leafall on BVE if i remember correctly

 

[williamus]

Another thread by someone with zero common sense or knowledge of how things work

How do you know he "didn't try braking"?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for judgemental response.

Please read my post again. I didn't say he "didn't try braking" - I said "he didn't look as if he was trying to brake" - i.e. the train didn't appear to slow appreciably as it went through the station.

I merely reported what I saw, as much as anything to warn others on this board that there might be problems on the Cross City line (as indeed there were).

Earlier trains had been okay on live departures and so this one appearing at least to travel at speed through the station came as a surprise to everyone at the station and I believe many thought the driver had simply missed the stop, however unlikely that appears.

I've used the Cross City line everyday for many years and the units are prone to slipping in poor rail conditions, but I've never seen this happen before. Incidentally, LM no longer operate a leaf-fall timetable, apparently because, perversely, it takes more staff to operate than the normal timetable.

Biggest apology from me, of course, is reserved for allowing my failing eyesight not to spot the "breaking/braking" typo on my iPhone screen before pressing the submit button.

 

[yorkie]

The train didn't look like it was braking? Or the driver didn't look like he was trying to brake?

I guess you meant the former, but it came out as the latter, which understandably isn't going to be appreciated by drivers.

 

[455driver]

You will probably find the brake handle was in emergency, there is nothing more the driver can do apart from sit there thinking "ah fork, more paperwork"!

 

[williamus]

The train didn't look like it was braking? Or the driver didn't look like he was trying to brake?

I guess you meant the former, but it came out as the latter, which understandably isn't going to be appreciated by drivers.

Yes, that's what I intended and I certainly wasn't criticising the driver. As others have explained, if the axles were locked up and the train was just sliding... that must be one of the worst feelings for a driver.

Grateful for the opportunity to make that clear.

 

[martybabes]

In-cab CCTV would assist the investigation!

 

[Monty]

In-cab CCTV would assist the investigation!

How would it?

 

[A-driver]

In-cab CCTV would assist the investigation!

No it wouldn't-but the OTMR certainly will clear things up beyond any dispute by showing how early the brake went in, when it started slipping and what action was taken. All CCTV would show is a worried looking face.

 

[krus_aragon]

Come on people - braking - not breaking. What is the world coming to ?

I think the Voyager on platform 1 at chester did manage to get a bit of breaking done.

 

[martybabes]

How would it?

You'd see whether the driver was applying the brakes or applying his make-up!

 

[Nym]

In-cab CCTV would assist the investigation!

Moreso than OTMR?

 

[OxtedL]

I think I've read somewhere that on some stock, emergency braking disables WSP. Is this right?

 

[A-driver]

I think I've read somewhere that on some stock, emergency braking disables WSP. Is this right?

More so the other way round-emerg brake will encourage WSP whatever the conditions. WSP certainly activates on all units I sign in emergency.

 

[455driver]

I think I've read somewhere that on some stock, emergency braking disables WSP. Is this right?

Not on the stuff I drive (other trains might be different depending what the 'standard' was when they were designed/built), it does disable the regen/rheostatic braking and relies solely on the disc brakes which are easier for the WSP to control though.

 

[PauloDavesi]

A polite request, would it please be possible for people to explain the meaning of an acronym the first time it is used in a thread, as not all the member here are fully aquanted with all the acronyms used.

Obviously, this isn't needed for ones in common public usage, eg ABS or TOC.

Many thanks.

Please note, no railway operatives were harmed, or bye laws breached in the production of this post.

 

[martybabes]

I have no particular gripe about drivers any more than any other group within the industry. I don't doubt the professionalism and integrity of drivers, tho some of them are, on here, somewhat robust in their responses to others not in the business.


Another thread made a reference to CCTV not being welcomed in the driving cab but this overshoot situation would almost certainly be able to be investigated more helpfully by viewing the actions of the driver on any CCTV image. My comments earlier were, intentionally, a little tongue-in-cheek and not meant to cause offence. If you have been offended, then you are much more sensitive little
lambs than I thought you were.

 

[Llanigraham]

A polite request, would it please be possible for people to explain the meaning of an acronym the first time it is used in a thread, as not all the member here are fully aquanted with all the acronyms used.

Obviously, this isn't needed for ones in common public usage, eg ABS or TOC.

Many thanks.

Please note, no railway operatives were harmed, or bye laws breached in the production of this post.

WSP = ABS for trains
(as described to me, a meer signalman, by a driver)

 

[GB]

Investigations are conducted comprehensively, using the data from the OTDR. There is no need for CCTV in this instance.

 

[Llanigraham]

My comments earlier were, intentionally, a little tongue-in-cheek and not meant to cause offence. If you have been offended, then you are much more sensitive little
lambs than I thought you were.

Well they didn't come over that way!!

Sarcasm is very difficult to put into print!!

 

[carriageline]

Actually, that's not true. I have no particular gripe about drivers any more than any other group within the industry. I don't doubt the professionalism and integrity of drivers, tho some of them are, on here, somewhat robust in their responses to others not in the business.


Another thread made a reference to CCTV not being welcomed in the driving cab but this overshoot situation would almost certainly be able to be investigated more helpfully by viewing the actions of the driver on any CCTV image. My comments earlier were, intentionally, a little tongue-in-cheek and not meant to cause offence. If you have been offended, then you are much more sensitive little
lambs than I thought you were.

The on train recording equipment will show plenty of data (ie when the brake was applied, what "notch" he used etc), so I can't see what benefit you would get over watching a CCTV video over downloading the box? If anything, you will get more from the OTDR


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[455driver]

With all the other information on the OTDR they will be able to work out what actions the driver took when within a few metres which will be much more relevant to the investigation than seeing if he is picking his nose.