Llandudno - Utter Disgrace

[Joseph_Locke]

Should nothing untowards occur in the final contract negotiations, what is the time factor to be for completion of the required works ?

Ah, $1,000,000 dollar question! The designated designer has been awaiting the go-ahead for about five months now, so I suspect that when a decision is made results will be expected in 0.00001 seconds (this is all perfectly normal).

I have had no sight of the latest fiction (sorry, programme) but from memory there is about six months of work to do, including a few staged bits to allow the station to continue in operation.

 

[MarkyT]

Clearly the station is bigger than required now or in any likely future scenario, but the old buildings' gradual demolition do not seem to have followed any discernible long term plan for the site.

As a whole, combined with the former yard between the wall and Builder Street the station could form a significant development plot with plenty of room for the desired additional car parking, bus stops etc. but the remaining passenger facilities are concentrated on the Builder Street side of the station. If, as may be implied, a final rationalised terminus layout retains only platforms 1 and 2 and possibly 3, this will bisect the larger site leaving a narrow plot over the former higher numbered platforms which may be difficult to reuse for other purposes. If the higher numbered platforms (3, disused 4 & 5) were to be retained instead, then 1 & 2 could be in-filled, the wall removed, and a much larger more flexible space could become available for station related and commercial development.

 

[tbtc]

The fact that Llandudno was a busy resort and a busy station in our grandparents' day has no relevance - the fact that it's a typically renovated station to deal with a couple of trains an hour (compared to equivalent Network Rail stations in 2012) is.

If Llandudno had the number of passengers as Southport or Blackpool North then this thread would probably not exist! Sadly the better comparison is with terminals like Lowestoft, Skegness, Morecambe or Whitby. In comparison with those stations Llandudno while still depressing somehow seems less awful.

Best comment on this thread.

Whatever the plans for renovation there's no excuse for allowing Llandudno Station to fall into such a shambles. It's still a working station, Network Rail should be ashamed of themselves.

Most working stations don't have several spare platforms that have been rendered superfluous by the decline of the town that they serve though - are you saying that they should all be brought up to a perfect standard? Or only a couple of platforms are really required to be in working order?

Just so we're clear but the suggestion is that Network Rail should be expending its precious resources on ensuring that every single platform in the country is clean and tidy even if there is little or no likelihood of that platform being used in the near future? That is where people would like Network Rail to expend its efforts?

Yes, that is apparently the number one priority (to some).

I'd have said that improving the length of the trains to Llandudno (two/three coach DMUs) or improving the destinations (I cannot get there from Yorkshire because the direct links were cut years ago, which makes Llandudno a less attractive holiday destination when I can get a direct train to Cleethorpes/ Bridlington/ Scarborough etc), but that's just me...

 

[DynamicSpirit]

... so I just experimentally tried to find a way to browse to the link from the http://www.nationalrail.co.uk home page so I could see what page the image was on, but I couldn't figure out how to do it.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/sjp/LLD/plan.html?rtnloc=LLD

Thanks but I'm afraid that link leave me none the wiser, since as far as I can see there's still no way to get from that page to the image that emoaconr posted.

 

[MarkyT]

Thanks but I'm afraid that link leave me none the wiser, since as far as I can see there's still no way to get from that page to the image that emoaconr posted.

You hover over certain labels in the diagram and little pop-ups appear containing the pictures. Click on them and you're taken to a page for each photo, larger.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I'd have said that improving the length of the trains to Llandudno (two/three coach DMUs) or improving the destinations (I cannot get there from Yorkshire because the direct links were cut years ago, which makes Llandudno a less attractive holiday destination when I can get a direct train to Cleethorpes/ Bridlington/ Scarborough etc), but that's just me...

I see that you are addressing the matter from a West/South Yorkshire perspective and as such, you are the very person to ask why the railway companies in those days saw Morecambe as a resort for the working population of the West Yorkshire towns and cities and went to the expense of building railway links from West Yorkshire, when "Yorkshire" had its own resorts of Scarborough and Bridlington.

 

[Masbroughlad]

Just so we're clear but the suggestion is that Network Rail should be expending its precious resources on ensuring that every single platform in the country is clean and tidy even if there is little or no likelihood of that platform being used in the near future? That is where people would like Network Rail to expend its efforts?

Yes! And they should get enough backing from the government to ensure a tidy, smart and safe railway for the country - as a national asset.

 

[ainsworth74]

Yes! And they should get enough backing from the government to ensure a tidy, smart and safe railway for the country - as a national asset.

Tidy and Smart?

Have you seen photos of the railway under BR? I'd say that the modern railway is pretty tidy and smart in comparison.

Safe?

Having a railway where there has only been one passenger fatality in the last five years isn't safe enough for you? Or how about the lowest figures for Cat A SPADs on record? You know the safety aspects that actually matter not some overgrown disused platforms.

You worry about some overgrown platforms in Llandudno, the rest of us and it seems the industry will worry about how to provide the service and railway that people actually want and need whilst trying to make savings and bring the exploding costs back into line.

Sorry if this comes accross as harsh but as others and myself have outlined some overgrown unused platforms really are the least of our problems.

 

[tbtc]

I see that you are addressing the matter from a West/South Yorkshire perspective and as such, you are the very person to ask why the railway companies in those days saw Morecambe as a resort for the working population of the West Yorkshire towns and cities and went to the expense of building railway links from West Yorkshire, when "Yorkshire" had its own resorts of Scarborough and Bridlington.

You're absolutely right Paul - wasn't Morecambe known as "Bradford on Sea"?

I don't know why those in Bradford went to the west coast for their holidays (whilst the rest of Yorkshire tended to go to the east coast) - it may be tied up in the criss crossing map of independent railway companies back then but that's just a guess.

The history of these things is interesting to me - parts of Fife (where I grew up) seemed to do better with the Glasgow holidayers rather than Edinburgh ones, despite being on the "other" coast.

I think it says something about the changing nature of holidays that we debate more about towns having links to airport stations than to the seaside towns any more.

Yes! And they should get enough backing from the government to ensure a tidy, smart and safe railway for the country - as a national asset.

...on every platform at a station which only sees a couple of trains an hour?

How many are there still in Llandudno (in various states of repair)?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Having a railway where there has only been one passenger fatality in the last five years isn't safe enough for you? Or how about the lowest figures for Cat A SPADs on record? You know the safety aspects that actually matter not some overgrown disused platforms

The sad thin is that if there's another railway fatality in the future the headlines will be about "ANOTHER rail death".

Maybe one day we'll look back at these as the Good Old Days in some respects when we achieved record passenger numbers (on the current infrastructure), opened new lines/stations etc yet had the safest railway ever. Maybe they'll look back at some photos of "out of use" platforms looking tatty...

 

[Cliveblackpool]

The South Fylde line has many grass covered and part covered platforms, with the side in use only maintained for around 4 coaches.
These 'untidy' areas are a haven for butterflies and other wildlife!

It is a shame the glass canopies have been allowed to deteriorate.
Infilling some tracks and using for parking is a good idea.
I think a passion for tiding up areas is not always to the good.
Losing services will make the station/ resort less attractive.

Hopefully Blackpool may get a few London services etc back after electrification.
Closing Central station was shortsighted. I believe traffic figures would be higher if Central was retained and North BPN closed. Short term profiteering, and those responsible are now pushing up daises!!

 

[ainsworth74]

The sad thin is that if there's another railway fatality in the future the headlines will be about "ANOTHER rail death".

I'm sure it will be.

Just like over the last few days the story wasn't railway restores both mainlines after massive storms and serious landslips in less than 24 hours (I've been thinking about it and didn't they have the WCML reopened in about twelve hours?) but was instead big bad railway strands passengers for fifteen hours on train, oh and think of the children!

:roll:

 

[tbtc]

I'm sure it will be.

Just like over the last few days the story wasn't railway restores both mainlines after massive storms and serious landslips in less than 24 hours (I've been thinking about it and didn't they have the WCML reopened in about twelve hours?) but was instead big bad railway strands passengers for fifteen hours on train, oh and think of the children!

:roll:

Yup - I've been away for the week and have only seen some of the pictures of flooding/ landslides/ damage, but it's pretty impressive that the railway coped with that without more disruption.

Bad news sells

 

[Welshman]

I don't know why those in Bradford went to the west coast for their holidays (whilst the rest of Yorkshire tended to go to the east coast) - it may be tied up in the criss crossing map of independent railway companies back then but that's just a guess.

I think you've already partly answered this question in your own post No.33.
You say Llandudno is not attractive to you as a holiday destination because you would have to change trains to get there.

Equally, people from Bradford and Pennine towns to the west [eg. Halifax] enjoyed through trains to the likes of Blackpool, Southport, etc, but for the east coast resorts they had to change at Leeds. And until 1967, folks from the Calder Valley mill towns not only had to change trains at Leeds, but stations too.

That certainly determined where my parents went on holidays when I was young. Cross from Leeds Central to Leeds City with heavy suitcases and a screaming child in tow, and repeat the performance on the way back, knowing that if you missed the train you had an hour to wait for the next one, or settle-down westwards on a through service. The answer, as we would say today, was a no-brainer!

 

[John55]

I don't know why those in Bradford went to the west coast for their holidays (whilst the rest of Yorkshire tended to go to the east coast) - it may be tied up in the criss crossing map of independent railway companies back then but that's just a guess.

From personal experience of the east and west coast resorts - temperature!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

You hover over certain labels in the diagram and little pop-ups appear containing the pictures. Click on them and you're taken to a page for each photo, larger.

Ah yes I see now, thanks!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Yes, I know, but that doesn't change the fact that the correct Welsh for Welcome to Llandudno is Croeso i Landudno, with just one L. (Soft mutation of Ll following the preposition)......My query is simply whether the sign in that photograph has one L or two, as it's not entirely clear.

Perhaps I did not read deeply enough into the point that you were making and would not, for a moment, wish to comment upon the matter of soft mutations of the Welsh language in terms of grammar.

Is there any method of using the picture to obtain more clarity or can you only deal with what you have ?

 

[Masbroughlad]

Tidy and Smart?

Have you seen photos of the railway under BR? I'd say that the modern railway is pretty tidy and smart in comparison.

Safe?

Having a railway where there has only been one passenger fatality in the last five years isn't safe enough for you? Or how about the lowest figures for Cat A SPADs on record? You know the safety aspects that actually matter not some overgrown disused platforms.

You worry about some overgrown platforms in Llandudno, the rest of us and it seems the industry will worry about how to provide the service and railway that people actually want and need whilst trying to make savings and bring the exploding costs back into line.

Sorry if this comes accross as harsh but as others and myself have outlined some overgrown unused platforms really are the least of our problems.

Tidy and Smart - I was not comparing it to BR really. I just think new (and exisitng) customers would prefer an environment that was better than the one at Llandudno.

Safe - Couldn't agree more. Safety should be number one priority. I personally think that the two can't go hand in hand - safe and smart and tidy. To me - an unkept station, that looks like Llandudno does, actually gives the impression that it is not looked after. Perception can count for a lot with the public. I know the railway is probably the safest it has ever been - does Joe Public who has to travel from a semi-derelict station?

 

[ainsworth74]

I guess we're just going to have to disagree on this one as being an issue of any importance. Personally I'd suggest that the things that the vast majority of passengers care about are that their train turns up on time, they get a seat, their journey is quick, un-delayed, their fare is not unreasonably expensive and that the station facilities that they actually use (you know like toilets not disused platforms) are clean and tidy. I don't think there are many that particularly care that there are some overgrown platforms.

 

[Masbroughlad]

I guess we're just going to have to disagree on this one as being an issue of any importance. Personally I'd suggest that the things that the vast majority of passengers care about are that their train turns up on time, they get a seat, their journey is quick, un-delayed, their fare is not unreasonably expensive and that the station facilities that they actually use (you know like toilets not disused platforms) are clean and tidy. I don't think there are many that particularly care that there are some overgrown platforms.

I agree to some extent, but (!) Llandudno is not just a few overgrown platforms. Maybe the photos don't capture it well, There is all the old roof structures just left rusting for starters - seriously - its not an overgrown platform it resembles a derelict scrap yard!

And the toilets at Llandudno close at 2.30pm! I see no attempt to look after customers ptroperly there! Crazy!

 

[emoaconr]

Yes, I know, but that doesn't change the fact that the correct Welsh for Welcome to Llandudno is Croeso i Landudno, with just one L. (Soft mutation of Ll following the preposition).

My query is simply whether the sign in that photograph has one L or two, as it's not entirely clear.

The sign has just "Croeso i Llandudno".

Even when I am speaking Welsh, I don't think I mutate "Llan" to "Lan"... I have no idea why, but its a far less important mutation to make since both the /l/ (l) and /ɬ/ (ll) phoneme have the same place of articulation.

 

[Bevan Price]

I agree to some extent, but (!) Llandudno is not just a few overgrown platforms. Maybe the photos don't capture it well, There is all the old roof structures just left rusting for starters - seriously - its not an overgrown platform it resembles a derelict scrap yard!
!

Perhaps someone was hoping that one of the supermarkets might make an offer for the unused part of the station ?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Perhaps someone was hoping that one of the supermarkets might make an offer for the unused part of the station ?

Something along the lines of Windermere or Glossop ?

 

[Welshman]

Quite likely.

If you're ever in an unfamiliar town and wondering where the now disused station/marshalling yard was, start by searching-out the supermarket.

 

[142094]

If you're ever in an unfamiliar town and wondering where the now disused station/marshalling yard was, start by searching-out the supermarket.

Or car park of course!

 

[Welshman]

Or car park of course!

You're right.
Car parks and supermarkets.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

You're right.
Car parks and supermarkets.

Though, in this case, "car park" is the correct answer - the prize therefore goes to 142094

 

[RobShipway]

Llandudno I believe does not get the spial holiday maker trains, that I remember going to there as a child and the up keep of the state of the station actually goes back to BR days so cannot be blamed on privatisation. However, it should be down to Conwy Council, Network Rail and Arriva Trains Wales to make a better effort with it in my book.

The last I heard about the redevlopment project is as per http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co....-redevelopment-still-on-track-55243-30337861/

I think work is progressing quicker in building the new shopping site in Prestatyn than the work for Llandudno.

 

[dk1]

Im off to Llandudno tommorow for a couple of days. Hope the Imperial Hotel is in a better state than the station Last time i passed through the station a couple of years back it wasn't too great but may have seemed better after a few in the nearby British Legion club.

Must say i have heard about some improvements. Will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Though, in this case, "car park" is the correct answer - the prize therefore goes to 142094

The station land that formerly was that of Ashbourne railway station is partly under the car park of the leisure centre and to add insult to injury, a supermarket and a new hospital were built over the line of the railway leading to Ashbourne railway station.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm off to Llandudno tomorrow for a couple of days. Hope the Imperial Hotel is in a better state than the station Last time i passed through the station a couple of years back it wasn't too great but may have seemed better after a few in the nearby British Legion club.

There are still some quite good hotels on the seafront promenade side of Llandudno. At least, they do contribute something pleasant on the eye to the visual effect of the town promenade.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Quite likely.

If you're ever in an unfamiliar town and wondering where the now disused station/marshalling yard was, start by searching-out the supermarket.

Merthyr Tydfil is a good one the former station had an overall roof and was a joint station for the Taff Vale, Rhymney, Brecon and Merthyr Railways plus GWR and LNWR. Its now one track and one platform with the rest given over to a Tesco Superstore which has a double deck car park.