Liz Truss and the Conservative Party.

[DC1989]

We are a parliamentary democracy. It's up to each individual party in to how they choose their leader but it certainly isn't an affront to democracy for parliament to choose, it is our democracy

 

[102 fan]

It's a little off topic, but Labour refuse to stand candidates in N Ireland. So, if expected, Labour win the next GE, 1.8 million voters here won't have had any say whatsoever.......

 

[takno]

We are a parliamentary democracy. It's up to each individual party in to how they choose their leader but it certainly isn't an affront to democracy for parliament to choose, it is our democracy

There's a famous saying that if you God gives you lemons you find a new God. Our conventions on democracy have been put together over a couple of hundred years, primarily to serve factional interests and keep the establishment in power. The current situation demonstrates very clearly that we need a real constitution designed properly to represent the interests of our nation.

Saying that it has to be so because a bunch of old dead Etonians found it convenient in their lifetimes doesn't really cut it, not for a country that's managed to cut itself off from any meaningful international guidance and finds itself with more need than ever to provide its own grown-ups to govern.

 

[Class 33]

So just 44 days as Prime Minister! That's definitely the shortest serving British Prime Minister ever, and most probably the shortest serving Prime Minister or President in the whole world EVER! What an embarassment for her! But it's her fault. She put herself forward to be electable as a Prime Minister, when she didn't even have the skills and experience to do the job, she didn't know what she was doing properly!

 

[py_megapixel]

It's a little off topic, but Labour refuse to stand candidates in N Ireland. So, if expected, Labour win the next GE, 1.8 million voters here won't have had any say whatsoever.......

It's not true that they "won't have had any say whatsoever". It is true that there will be a party in power which they didn't vote for - which is almost always the case for a majority of the country.

 

[GusB]

It's a little off topic, but Labour refuse to stand candidates in N Ireland. So, if expected, Labour win the next GE, 1.8 million voters here won't have had any say whatsoever.......

For a while we were lumbered with a Tory government that relied on the DUP for support, and they don't stand candidates here. I don't recall having a say on that!

 

[Cloud Strife]

It's a little off topic, but Labour refuse to stand candidates in N Ireland. So, if expected, Labour win the next GE, 1.8 million voters here won't have had any say whatsoever.......

The SDLP are a de facto vote for Labour in NI, along with Alliance representing the Lib Dems and arguably the SNP.

It's only the Tories that don't really have a partner there: they used to be in bed with the UUP, but not anymore.

 

[reddragon]

The official one too

Call an immediate general election so that the people can decide who should lead us through the unprecedented crises threatening the UK.

Archived Petition: Call an immediate general election to end the chaos of the current government

Call an immediate general election so that the people can decide who should lead us through the unprecedented crises threatening the UK.

petition.parliament.uk

Mods is this OK?

 

[WatcherZero]

Been word a dozen or so MP's at least would resign their seats calling by-elections or defect if Boris elected.

Remember hes still under investigation for lying to the Parliamentary watchdog, and being on your third foreign holiday in two months after the Parliamentary Recess has ended and your supposed to be in work is hardly a good look (as was going AWOL during the last leadership election).

 

[Bald Rick]

That's why I feel pity for her - her political ambitions, though they are down to ego, still lie in tatters, and that must be difficult for her to come to terms with. Similarly with Boris.
However much I disagree with this crop of Conservatives (and disagree with them I do, vehemently) I still think it's important to view them with compassion as the human beings they are, hence my sympathy.

To be fair for a moment, I feel sorry for her too. She evidently felt that being PM was her destiny, and she was certainly ambitious. However what the country needs is a PM who is intelligent, smart and can connect with the ‘people’. She is none of those things, and it must be a terrible feeling to have that exposed on the highest stage.

I despair at the quality of our politicians. In my day job, I get to meet top business leaders (as an advisor in a specialist area). I also (less often) get to meet politicians and the comparison is not a remotely fair fight.... The business leaders grasp stuff VERY quickly and often keep me on my toes in my own area of expertise. By contrast, I went to see one of the leading lights of the Shadow Cabinet not long ago who was, at best, just ordinary: nothing that came out of their mouth was anything other than predictable even though my field is something the individual has an interest in.

I am in a similar position to you, I have met some very able politicians, but also some absolute twits. The issue we have, and this may be controversial, is we don’t pay MPs enough. Nowhere near enough. And therefore that role attracts either people with their own money but no common sense, or career politicians with strongly held convictions in the ‘bubble’ with no connection to the real world. I would happily have MPs and ministerial salaries double if we could get some bloody talent in there. It’s ridiculous that an MP earns less in a year than an average Premier league footballer earns in a week, or a self employed plumber can earn in a year. (that’s not to denigrate plumbers, I come from a family of them; I use that job as an example)

So just 44 days as Prime Minister! That's definitely the shortest serving British Prime Minister ever, and most probably the shortest serving Prime Minister or President in the whole world EVER! What an embarassment for her! But it's her fault. She put herself forward to be electable as a Prime Minister, when she didn't even have the skills and experience to do the job, she didn't know what she was doing properly!

Brian Clough was in charge of Leeds for 44 days. I don’t think LT will be making a similar come back.

 

[adrock1976]

Been word a dozen or so MP's at least would resign their seats calling by-elections or defect if Boris elected.

Remember hes still under investigation for lying to the Parliamentary watchdog, and being on your third foreign holiday in two months after the Parliamentary Recess has ended and your supposed to be in work is hardly a good look (as was going AWOL during the last leadership election).

Perhaps now is the time for elected representatives to be banned from going on junkets abroad while the elected body is in session?

Most, if not all meetings can be done online with the technology available.

To be fair for a moment, I feel sorry for her too. She evidently felt that being PM was her destiny, and she was certainly ambitious. However what the country needs is a PM who is intelligent, smart and can connect with the ‘people’. She is none of those things, and it must be a terrible feeling to have that exposed on the highest stage.





I am in a similar position to you, I have met some very able politicians, but also some absolute twits. The issue we have, and this may be controversial, is we don’t pay MPs enough. Nowhere near enough. And therefore that role attracts either people with their own money but no common sense, or career politicians with strongly held convictions in the ‘bubble’ with no connection to the real world. I would happily have MPs and ministerial salaries double if we could get some bloody talent in there. It’s ridiculous that an MP earns less in a year than an average Premier league footballer earns in a week.



Brian Clough was in charge of Leeds for 44 days. I don’t think LT will be making a similar come back.

Although Clough did well with one of his future gigs at Nottingham Forest, where Forest won the European Cup by doing it the proper way i.e. by winning the top flight division in 1978. Unlike in 2020 where the two finalists were Liverpool and Tottenham Hotspur, with neither side having won any silverware at all the previous season.

 

[DelayRepay]

Been word a dozen or so MP's at least would resign their seats calling by-elections or defect if Boris elected.

Remember hes still under investigation for lying to the Parliamentary watchdog, and being on your third foreign holiday in two months after the Parliamentary Recess has ended and your supposed to be in work is hardly a good look (as was going AWOL during the last leadership election).

On the other hand, I doubt Truss has had time to re-decorate, so if we give Boris the job we'll save the cost of more wallpaper.

That seems as good a way as any to select the next PM!

 

[Cloud Strife]

To be fair for a moment, I feel sorry for her too. She evidently felt that being PM was her destiny, and she was certainly ambitious. However what the country needs is a PM who is intelligent, smart and can connect with the ‘people’. She is none of those things, and it must be a terrible feeling to have that exposed on the highest stage.

I also feel sorry for her. By all accounts, she seems to be quite well liked as a person. But she was clearly well out of her depth, and she doesn't seem to understand many of the issues presented to her.

She was in a no-win situation from the beginning, too.

For what it's worth, surely Mordaunt isn't going to commit political suicide by running for PM now? I cannot see any reason for her to stand, especially as there's no coming back for the Tories now.

 

[JD2168]

It could hardly have gone much worse for Liz Truss, a disastrous mini budget which cost Kwasi Kwarteng his post, Jeremy Hunt taking over & reversing near all policies then to top it off all the incidents around the vote on Fracking with the allegations of bullying. It is surely time for a general election to occur.

 

[Giugiaro]

To think that her late majesty Queen Elizabeth II would still add another record to her portfolio even after her passing:

Shortest-lived British Government.

 

[43096]

What concerns me is this statement….

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-63309400

The tory establishment selected their favourites, but the tory members didnt pick their man…
So let Liz run and fail, load it all on her, even the Queens death was on her patch.

Just to remind you, the last time the Tory membership were allowed to elect a leader, it lasted all of 44 days before completely unravelling. To further remind you, the MPs - who probably know rather more about the candidates than the blue rinse Doris brigade - didn't vote for said leader.

I would certainly be avoiding having the membership vote for the leader if I could!

 

[43096]

Brian Clough was in charge of Leeds for 44 days. I don’t think LT will be making a similar come back.

Clough came back to win the European Cup - twice. I doubt Brexit Truss would want to do similarly!

 

[Sm5]

I just wonder if this was a stitch up.

Old Tories are capable of anything.

She was even smiling when resigning.

 

[Broucek]

I am in a similar position to you, I have met some very able politicians, but also some absolute twits. The issue we have, and this may be controversial, is we don’t pay MPs enough. Nowhere near enough. And therefore that role attracts either people with their own money but no common sense, or career politicians with strongly held convictions in the ‘bubble’ with no connection to the real world. I would happily have MPs and ministerial salaries double if we could get some bloody talent in there. It’s ridiculous that an MP earns less in a year than an average Premier league footballer earns in a week, or a self employed plumber can earn in a year. (that’s not to denigrate plumbers, I come from a family of them; I use that job as an example)

Strongly agree. Top leaders in pretty much every field earn far, far more than Cabinet Ministers. And the societal Polarisation that has been encouraged by news and social media have made the job harder and less pleasant….

 

[Thirteen]

Realistically, the Tories are screwed no matter when they call the election so I'm not sure if whoever gets the top job will call it anything soon, it's more likely to be next year at the earliest.

 

[Yew]

It's a little off topic, but Labour refuse to stand candidates in N Ireland. So, if expected, Labour win the next GE, 1.8 million voters here won't have had any say whatsoever.......

About half of those willingly vote for a party that doesn't take their seats in the house anyway.

 

[nlogax]

She was even smiling when resigning.

That strikes me as a nervous tic or outward sign of stress more than anything else. She's demonstrated that one repeatedly since the summer.

 

[nw1]

Realistically, the Tories are screwed no matter when they call the election so I'm not sure if whoever gets the top job will call it anything soon, it's more likely to be next year at the earliest.

I personally see Tory V doing a "deal", to avoid the significant disquiet and outrage that will occur if they refuse an election outright: have me for a few months, and I will give you a spring or early summer election.

So will it indeed be Boris vs Sunak? That seems to be what the papers are indicating, at least. It would be bizarre, to say the least, if Johnson won this.

 

[dosxuk]

New polling out from PeoplePolling this morning, field work done yesterday.

LAB: 53% (= from 12 Oct)
CON: 14% (-5)
LDM: 11% (+3)
GRN: 6% (=)
SNP: 5% (-1)

https://peoplepolling.org/tables/202210_GBN_W42_full.pdf

They also asked "What word or phrase first comes to mind when you think about the Conservative government?"

 

[kristiang85]

Strongly agree. Top leaders in pretty much every field earn far, far more than Cabinet Ministers. And the societal Polarisation that has been encouraged by news and social media have made the job harder and less pleasant….

I agree too. Decent potential politicians are likely put off by the workload and constant barraging on social media (it is a thankless task), because the renumeration and what you can achieve just isn't worth it. You end up with the narcissists, and that's how we have two really weak front benches.

Not to mention that in the past 7 years we've had probably around 900 different MPs, and two of them have been murdered. That probably makes it one of the most dangerous jobs in the country?

 

[Howardh]

I personally see Tory V doing a "deal", to avoid the significant disquiet and outrage that will occur if they refuse an election outright: have me for a few months, and I will give you a spring or early summer election.

So will it indeed be Boris vs Sunak? That seems to be what the papers are indicating, at least. It would be bizarre, to say the least, if Johnson won this.

The most realistic date for a GE would be May 2024 , a few months earlier than scheduled but in conjunction with local elections, a warmer time of year, more traditional than November etc etc. So that gives the new PM 18 months - although if it's not going well then we will have to put up with the full term.

But as I think the majority of the country want, it should be now (ie early December).

 

[yorksrob]

New polling out from PeoplePolling this morning, field work done yesterday.

https://peoplepolling.org/tables/202210_GBN_W42_full.pdf

They also asked "What word or phrase first comes to mind when you think about the Conservative government?"

Sad to see that "fiasco" isn't in there.

 

[Trainbike46]

It's a little off topic, but Labour refuse to stand candidates in N Ireland. So, if expected, Labour win the next GE, 1.8 million voters here won't have had any say whatsoever.......

None of the mainland GB political parties stand candidates here, and that is probably for the best, but we have political equivalents that mostly represent the same ideas:
- SDLP for labour
- Alliance for Libdem
- UUP and DUP for Conservative
- Green party NI for the Scottish greens and the green party of england and wales

 

[Mag_seven]

We now have a new thread about the new prime minister (whoever that may be) so we will bring this one to a close to avoid duplication.

The new thread can be found here:

Who will be our next Prime Minister?

According to the Guido Fawkes website Boris Johnson already has 36 backers, Rishi Sunak 26 and Penny Mordaunt 10 - so Boris could be on his way back! Website link https://order-order.com/2022/10/20/whos-backing-who-the-spreadsheet-returns/ Penny Mordaunt seems to the only one already actively...

www.railforums.co.uk