Livery musings

[jopsuk]

I've been thinking a bit about liveries and service levels. I've seen it suggested that the "ScotRail" and LOROL concept of having a fixed livery, no matter the operator, could be the basis for reliverying "Intercity" trains, so that customers can recognise a designated "Intercity" and know what sort of service they'll get on that train.

My concept is a little less prescriptive, but would cover all trains (and possibly buses too). It's actually based on the Stagecoach idea- have a livery for Intercity, one for "commuter/regional" and one for "metro", and I'd take their base colours as the starting point.

So, I'd require Intercity to be primarily whiteish. Commuter/regional would be blueish. Metro redish. It's fairly patriotic, isn't it?

"Ish"? Yes, "Ish". I'd allow corporate variation. So, I'd allow Arriva to substitute their "cream" for white and the "aquamarine" for blue (with perhaps an orange instead of red? could look good). First I'd allow to use the "barbie" pink for red and the deep blue/purple for blue.
Govia's current corporate colours would pose a problem I'd think though.
Conceptually, I'd see "National Express Blue" retaining the silver "dot 2 dot" parts, with the logo in red and white, with "Red" handled the same way. DB Regio could just use their existing White and Red liveries (plus RVAR doors) from DB Germany with perhaps Chiltern Blue for the additional livery.

Most of Scotrail and Northern's services would be "commuter/regional" anyway.

I've been having a bash at some Intercity coaches, using this as my base image. I've attached my attempt. As per the licence on the original image, you may alter it as you please for non corporate use, as long as you back-credit the source. Go wild!
Liveries, from left to right:
Arriva, NSRailways (adapted), DB IC, First Dynamic White, Govia Intercity, Nat Ex, Stagecoach.

I've not done the details- the First needs the "swirly" bits, the NX needs dot-2-dot, perhaps the Govia could do with carriage end circles?

Might also try a ScotRail: Scotland Railways (for the Sleeper) basically using the inverse of the Saltaire livery.

Have a go using MUs at blue and red liveries for each (and any other potential corporate owners?) if you want, and add them to this thread.

 

[poshbakerloo]

Some people are real dumb asses when it comes to trains, my brother got on a XC 221 thinking it would stop at our local station which is normal served by Northern's 323s...he said he was surprised when he shot thru it at 95Mph!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I don't think white on the long distance trains is such a great idea, there is a reason the EMT power cars are blue! FGW weren't keen on white on their power cars either!

but the idea makes sense in other ways, I'd go for the intercity trains having a livery something like this, mid distance being something like this and local stuff being a bit like this.

 

[poshbakerloo]

My big I idea for an express livery has always been red and white...

A whole white train, with red doors, and a red stripe...

 

[Drsatan]

My big I idea for an express livery has always been red and white...

A whole white train, with red doors, and a red stripe...

On a 158 you'd have trouble keeping it clean...

Would work on an EMU though.

 

[starrymarkb]

and it is rather DB

 

[poshbakerloo]

and it is rather DB

Yeah that is pretty much how it turned out, it was originally meant to be a more modern Intercity livery based on the last one used...

 

[jopsuk]

The germans use white even on their diesels- maybe we need to wash our trains more?

Whilst completely standard liveries would be better, my concept is to allow corporate branding to be obvious whilst making the "sectors" obvious as well- and the red/white/blue as a "british" concept.

I'll have a go at some other potential operators- any idea about corporate colours for Keolis?

Also, like EMT do, I'd allow locos in a different colour- so First could say have dark blue locos as they do now.

 

[MCR247]

I quite like the way in London buses are red, with a logo of the operator, but that might confuse people because a 139 would be in the same livery as a 390

 

[Helvellyn]

My big I idea for an express livery has always been red and white...

A whole white train, with red doors, and a red stripe...

The red stripe should be higher up, with a white stripe (the same thickness as the red) between the red and dark brown of the windows perhaps. Also extend the red stripe to the inner coach ends.

If you wanted to try an updated InterCity livery, remember their house colour was claret, so pehaps claret doors/mid-bodyside stripe? When they tried it on a couple of Class 43 power cars it looked quite dull, I think because of the dark brown of the upper body. Perhaps it would have gone better with a dark grey?

 

[poshbakerloo]

The red stripe should be higher up, with a white stripe (the same thickness as the red) between the red and dark brown of the windows perhaps. Also extend the red stripe to the inner coach ends.

If you wanted to try an updated InterCity livery, remember their house colour was claret, so pehaps claret doors/mid-bodyside stripe? When they tried it on a couple of Class 43 power cars it looked quite dull, I think because of the dark brown of the upper body. Perhaps it would have gone better with a dark grey?

It was the dark brown and that dirty cream colour below the red stripe that I didnt like, half the time it just looked as if they hadnt been washed

 

[jopsuk]

Using various bits from here, I've done a First Group Electrostar, "city lights" varient. The car on the far right is pretty much the current. The right middle has an alternate door colour varient. The far left is the "red" Metro livery.

The middle left is fun. InterCity Electrostar anyone?

 

[jopsuk]

National Express and Arriva "Blue" and "Red" on a 321? THink these ones might need more than a little "tweaking"! I was quite happy with the First.

 

[jopsuk]

And as I'm counting orange as "Red", have LOROL:

I think it rather suits that?

 

[Daimler]

While I think the idea of allowing different operators variations on the theme is an excellent one, in my view the main red/blue/white should always be absolutely the same - variations could come about through different stripes/door colours/shapes. Passengers - in my opinion - would associate a specific colour with each service, not just a 'kind of' red/blue/white.

 

[jopsuk]

OK then, using RGB 255:0:0 for red and 0:0:255 for blue (no subtlety here!), that First franken-377 again:

Plus, a Red 378 in LOROL, Govia (LM/Southern), NX and Stagecoach (SWT)

Right, the Intercity coaches again, all with white as the primary.
Arriva, NS, DB, First, Govia, NX, Stagecoach

Edit: tomorrow, the same companies, but blue, on a seven car 377

Done it as an eight car, in both "Commuter/Regional" Blue and "Metro/Local" Red. Notice what's missing from the bodies? Guards and Drivers might quite like the change!
Arriva, NS, DB, First, NX, Govia, Stagecoach, Unbranded

 

[asylumxl]

Or they could look and listen and find the correct train?

You know those people who look up at the board, and then listen to the announcement, and ask you 50 billion times if this is the train to so and so? This is encouraging them.

If they require a livery to differentiate services, I imagine they deserve to get on the wrong train .

 

[jopsuk]

Having taken the comments about base colour on board, one thing this would reduce is re-livery costs/time! Just vinyl'n'go

 

[poshbakerloo]

The only thing I don't like about this, is that it would get rid of the variation between liverys.

 

[starrymarkb]

Would it save much, given that most stock is re/painted on overhauls regardless of livery (IIRC FGW Powercars get repainted on F exams)

 

[jopsuk]

Got out of control here. An "Intercity" version of a 395 (christened 396), lengthened to 12 cars, with luggage compartments in each driving car, plus catering. In a blue "Union Flag" livery. Sprinkle traction bogies liberally along it, could be a good universal IC class for the ECML, GEML, Brighton Mainline, South West Mainline and electrified GWML and MML?

Click for a much much bigger version

 

[Waddon]

I think it would be nice for some smaller operators to paint every unit in a different colour combination. Would give some variety to certain routes. However I suspect that this will inevitably come to pass in the form of all over advertising vinyls, which can look good, but usually don't...

 

[MCR247]

Got out of control here. An "Intercity" version of a 395 (christened 396), lengthened to 12 cars, with luggage compartments in each driving car, plus catering. In a blue "Union Flag" livery. Sprinkle traction bogies liberally along it, could be a good universal IC class for the ECML, GEML, Brighton Mainline, South West Mainline and electrified GWML and MML?

Click for a much much bigger version

I think that looks great. A great livery for britains HS2 lines

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

I'd have for franchised TOCs such as EC, XC and VWC etc (Intercity Operations) the "IC Swallow" livery, and for all the regional stuff like Northern and LM, a new style of Regional Railways livery. That way, there is a clear distinction between long distance and local.. OK, FGW would have both liveries, but again, it would differentiate between long and local. OA and Freight TOCs to keep their own liveries.

 

[Daimler]

Got out of control here. An "Intercity" version of a 395 (christened 396), lengthened to 12 cars, with luggage compartments in each driving car, plus catering. In a blue "Union Flag" livery. Sprinkle traction bogies liberally along it, could be a good universal IC class for the ECML, GEML, Brighton Mainline, South West Mainline and electrified GWML and MML?

Click for a much much bigger version

Very smart, that is!