Liverpool to Cardiff

[Institute]

Good afternoon
We (2 person) are looking to travel from Liverpool to Cardiff on a weekday late June 2025.
We have two cycles which makes our planning important.

After a terrible experience trying to board the Leeds - Liverpool train (travelling back from Hull) with a bike last year, platform was rammed and train was rammed on arrival, reserved cycle places rammed with luggage.

From my early investigations we can travel via Chester where we would pick up a train originating from Holyhead but it looks likely to be quite a small train (am I correct) and added to that train could be busy having already travelled from Holyhead.

A second option is for us to travel to Manchester Piccadilly then direct to Cardiff. From what I can see this train originates from Piccadilly so may be easier to board with two bikes, however I don't know the type or size of this train.

Does anyone travel on, or have information, or advice on either of these two route, particularly taking into account the cycles problem.

Thanks for any help

John

 

[Iskra]

Both of these routes see some longer trains. The one from Chester is limited to one train in the morning Southbound. Manchester has them more regularly. These trains can be identified as they have the dining facilities icon in the timetable, as stated at the bottom of the page here. These trains also contain a luggage van which may have more cycle storage. The Chester train is likely to be the quietest. Despite this, things can and do go wrong so just be aware of the possibility.

Food and drink on our trains | Transport for Wales

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tfw.wales

 

[Institute]

Both of these routes see some longer trains. The one from Chester is limited to one train in the morning Southbound. Manchester has them more regularly. These trains can be identified as they have the dining facilities icon in the timetable, as stated at the bottom of the page here. These trains also contain a luggage van which may have more cycle storage. The Chester train is likely to be the quietest. Despite this, things can and do go wrong so just be aware of the possibility.

Food and drink on our trains | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

Excellent thanks for that. Would I be right in assuming that first class would be available on the longer trains as opposed to the shorter ones (which I believe are similar to the Northern ones that I use regularly.

Thanks John

 

[Iskra]

Excellent thanks for that. Would I be right in assuming that first class would be available on the longer trains as opposed to the shorter ones (which I believe are similar to the Northern ones that I use regularly.

Thanks John

It is definitely available on the ones that convey dining carriages. Some of the Diesel Multiple Units (the shorter trains with no dining) do have a ‘business class’ section which acts as first class and is the same fare, but is not up to the same standard as the proper first class on the trains with dining. The dining is a nice experience too, I would recommend it if you are in a position to do it.

 

[alistairlees]

It is definitely available on the ones that convey dining carriages. Some of the Diesel Multiple Units (the shorter trains with no dining) do have a ‘business class’ section which acts as first class and is the same fare, but is not up to the same standard as the proper first class on the trains with dining. The dining is a nice experience too, I would recommend it if you are in a position to do it.

They (the DMUs) have "Premium Standard" seating for which no premium is charged (or is now planned to be).

 

[alistairlees]

Excellent thanks for that. Would I be right in assuming that first class would be available on the longer trains as opposed to the shorter ones (which I believe are similar to the Northern ones that I use regularly.

Your best bet for bike space is to go to Manchester (or Crewe) in time for one of the loco-hauled services; these operate every two hours to Cardiff and convey an entire coach for bikes (and nothing else, really). They also convey First Class which is a nicer ambience - it's debatable if it's worth the premium unless you have the food though (which costs extra but is very good). If the train is at a very busy time then the first class may be worthwhile. Personally, given that you are in Liverpool, I would go via Crewe, timing it for one the loco-hauled trains.

 

[Institute]

Your best bet for bike space is to go to Manchester (or Crewe) in time for one of the loco-hauled services; these operate every two hours to Cardiff and convey an entire coach for bikes (and nothing else, really). They also convey First Class which is a nicer ambience - it's debatable if it's worth the premium unless you have the food though (which costs extra but is very good). If the train is at a very busy time then the first class may be worthwhile. Personally, given that you are in Liverpool, I would go via Crewe, timing it for one the loco-hauled trains.

Excellent thanks. We are actually Broadgreen so can pick up a Piccadilly train easily direct. I think the Crewe train is actually the one from Piccadilly anyway so I would prefer to get on from where it originates. How would I identify a "loco hauled" service as the thought of so much space for the bikes would be a dealmaker.

Thanks John

 

[Iskra]

Excellent thanks. We are actually Broadgreen so can pick up a Piccadilly train easily direct. I think the Crewe train is actually the one from Piccadilly anyway so I would prefer to get on from where it originates. How would I identify a "loco hauled" service as the thought of so much space for the bikes would be a dealmaker.

Thanks John

The loco hauled services are the same ones as with dining, so look for the dining icon on the timetable

 

[alistairlees]

Excellent thanks. We are actually Broadgreen so can pick up a Piccadilly train easily direct. I think the Crewe train is actually the one from Piccadilly anyway so I would prefer to get on from where it originates. How would I identify a "loco hauled" service as the thought of so much space for the bikes would be a dealmaker.

Thanks John

As Iskra said they are the ones with 1st class and dining identified in the TfW timetable. They run every two hours. You can find them on brtimes.com too - 06:27, 08:30, 10:30 etc. Although that timetable is for today, I think it will still be the same after the May timetable change. The 10:30 could be a particularly good option for you.

 

[Iskra]

They (the DMUs) have "Premium Standard" seating for which no premium is charged (or is now planned to be).

Thanks for the correction. Is thaf due to lack of STD capacity?

 

[alistairlees]

Thanks for the correction. Is thaf due to lack of STD capacity?

I think they just realised it was too difficult to police, given how busy the trains are, and how customers could largely not tell the difference. All the stickers are now removed (I think).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Excellent thanks. We are actually Broadgreen so can pick up a Piccadilly train easily direct. I think the Crewe train is actually the one from Piccadilly anyway so I would prefer to get on from where it originates. How would I identify a "loco hauled" service as the thought of so much space for the bikes would be a dealmaker.

Just to clarify the Chester option for a loco-hauled train to Cardiff.
It's 0716 from Chester, and the only Merseyrail connection is at 0608 from Lime St Low Level, reaching Chester at 0655.
It's easy enough taking bikes on Merseyrail, but you have to negotiate the comedy lift at Lime St - two bikes is all it will take.
You'll also have to hump the bikes using the lifts at Chester.
I can't see a connection from Broad Green to Lime St.