Liverpool Overhead Railway

[fowler9]

At the end of the day Liverpool City Council are selling off a load of green land by Harthill Road near Calderstones Park (About 8 football pitches worth) to build million pound detached houses on. They are doing this to make money and I can't see the money being spent on a vanity project. Liverpool does not need this and it also does not need a load of million pound luxury detached houses. The council can do one.

 

[Pyreneenguy]

.


.

• Construction of the proposed station in Vauxhall.
• Construction of a tram-train link between Liverpool South Parkway and Liverpool John Lennon Airport.
• Joining the Canada Dock Branch to the Merseyrail network.
• Reopening Liverpool St James station.

..

I can see 3 out of 4 of your suggestions being viable. Liverpool John Lennon Airport is crying out for a rail/tram link. However Lime Street is already saturated.

Reopening to passengers the line from Bootle Oriel Road to Lime St could, given time, prove to be very popular. Perhaps the number of stations needs to be increased, to temp people off the already frequent busses. An increased Southport service could also be routed into Lime St, much more convenient than changing at Moorfields onto the Loop.

The case for St.James station has been made and it would be a useful addition to a rapidly growing residential area.

Vauxhall on the other hand is not going to happen ( soon) as the area is not residential and I can see very little demand from the people using / working in the small industrial units that are found there.

 

[fowler9]

I can see 3 out of 4 of your suggestions being viable. Liverpool John Lennon Airport is crying out for a rail/tram link. However Lime Street is already saturated.

Reopening to passengers the line from Bootle Oriel Road to Lime St could, given time, prove to be very popular. Perhaps the number of stations needs to be increased, to temp people of the already frequent busses. An increased Southport service could also be routed into Lime St, much more convenient than changing at Moorfields onto the Loop.

The case for St.James station has been made and it would be a useful addition to a rapidly growing residential area.

Vauxhall on the other hand is not going to happen ( soon) as the area is not residential and I can see very little demand for the people using / working in the small industrial units that are found there.

Everton apparently looking at building a stadium in the Vauxhall area.

 

[eMeS]

I don't remember the LOR at all - it was demolished the year after I was born. ...

My late father, bless him, took me on the LOR as a special treat when I was about 8 years old. At the time we were living a few miles west of Manchester, close to the CLC, so it was an easy Saturday outing, and I'm glad Dad had the foresight.

 

[Pyreneenguy]

Everton apparently looking at building a stadium in the Vauxhall area.

I wasn't aware of this. I think a stadium situated by the river would be a fantastic developement but where exactly they could put it is another matter ! There is certainly the space required for a station, the viaduct once carried 4 tracks.

 

[The Growlery]

Most of the LOR was built on stilts if I remember correctly.
The big attraction was passing over the ends of the docks enabling passengers to view the Ocean liners, quite a treat in the 1950s.
Not sure it would have the same appeal for tourists these days.

 

[fowler9]

I wasn't aware of this. I think a stadium situated by the river would be a fantastic developement but where exactly they could put it is another matter ! There is certainly the space required for a station, the viaduct once carried 4 tracks.

I am a red so to be honest I didn't give it much scrutiny but part of the plans included a station in that area. Everton have some big financial backing at the moment.

 

[notlob.divad]

Everton apparently looking at building a stadium in the Vauxhall area.

And the conversion of Stanley dock into apartments

 

[urbophile]

The case for St.James station has been made and it would be a useful addition to a rapidly growing residential area.

Vauxhall on the other hand is not going to happen ( soon) as the area is not residential and I can see very little demand from the people using / working in the small industrial units that are found there.

The Vauxhall area is already half-residential (Eldonian Village) – admittedly probably not very densely populated - and the semi-derelict docklands area is set for massive regeneration: businesses, residential etc very similar to the area around St James (which if it is re-opened must be renamed to avoid confusion with James Street).

 

[6Gman]

I would suggest Mr Rotherham, and others who call for recreating the LOR, take a walk along its route from the Liver Building up to Sandhills.

It's a wasteland! *



* (OK, OK, there are pockets of regeneration, but generally there are few residents, no attractions, and a very seedy atmosphere)

 

[Pyreneenguy]

The Vauxhall area is already half-residential (Eldonian Village) – admittedly probably not very densely populated - and the semi-derelict docklands area is set for massive regeneration: businesses, residential etc very similar to the area around St James (which if it is re-opened must be renamed to avoid confusion with James Street).

My comments did not rule out the possibility of a station being built, but these things do seem to take an eternity to materialise ( Maghull North , Headbolt Lane).

Funnily enough, I was visiting Liverpool last week-end and enjoyed a Mersey Ferry River Cruise whilst my other half was on a spending-spree in the City centre ! The nostalgic commentary mentions the landing-stage on New Brighon pier, which was last served by a Liverpool bound ferry in 1971. The sea-front at New Brighton has been tastefully modernised and is attracting visitors in ever increasing numbers. Rebuilding a landing-stage for the Mersey Ferries would be a great addition for the town, but as we're on a railway forum.....................................................

 

[Pyreneenguy]

.(which if it is re-opened must be renamed to avoid confusion with James Street).

I've been giving this some thought. How about naming the station after a locally important historical figure ? As an example, many Parisian Metro stations are named after people, the first that springs to mind is "Guy Môquet" on the line from Saint-Lazare to the Porte de Saint-Ouen. The station was renamed in 1946 to honour the 17 year old communist resistance fighter who was shot by the German occupants.

For Saint James, I suggest " Bessie Braddock".

 

[8A Rail]

Canada Dock Branch as far as I am aware is now a days called the "Bootle Branch" line as Canada Dock no longer served or connected (at Atlantic Dock Junction) and never will be again as the land where the station was located filled and raised.

I accept the older generation will be familiar with the term "Canada Dock Branch" but the younger generation with the "Bootle Branch" line.

With regards to the line being used for passenger trains, I don't see it happening as no benefit for around the houses route in Liverpool. Best bet was a few years ago when thoughts of a new LFC stadium but that bit the dust for sensible reasons. The line is more important as a freight route to/from the docks.

St James Station has some merit but also, some form of transport improvements between LSP and the Airport - ideally a direct rail link, as a tram-train link is no better than the present buses to be honest, still got to get on and off the train at LSP to make the connection. Mention of "Speke", again an extension of the "Airport" route but not sure where it could go in the heart of the area? If referring on the LNWR line as I suspect, then where you put it as it would be be located by "industrial" locations and would not really served the Speke locality unless you have a very large car park. There was talk of a "Halewood" station on that line but again there are problems to overcome and which TOC would be willing and serve either station too?

 

[notlob.divad]

St James (which if it is re-opened must be renamed to avoid confusion with James Street).

I've been giving this some thought. How about naming the station after a locally important historical figure ? As an example, many Parisian Metro stations are named after people, the first that springs to mind is "Guy Môquet" on the line from Saint-Lazare to the Porte de Saint-Ouen. The station was renamed in 1946 to honour the 17 year old communist resistance fighter who was shot by the German occupants.

For Saint James, I suggest " Bessie Braddock".

Or better still re-name James Street as Liverpool Waterfront.

 

[daikilo]

I would suggest Mr Rotherham, and others who call for recreating the LOR, take a walk along its route from the Liver Building up to Sandhills.

It's a wasteland! *

* (OK, OK, there are pockets of regeneration, but generally there are few residents, no attractions, and a very seedy atmosphere)

Perfect, cheap land, what better for a massive regeneration project matched by a decent tramway/rail line. Only concern would be where to.... tramway turning at the Liver building towards the city centre? Developers to pay most of cost.

 

[507021]

The Vauxhall area is already half-residential (Eldonian Village) – admittedly probably not very densely populated - and the semi-derelict docklands area is set for massive regeneration: businesses, residential etc very similar to the area around St James (which if it is re-opened must be renamed to avoid confusion with James Street).

I think Parliament Street or Baltic Triangle would be a suitable name for Liverpool St James.

 

[adam9413]

Still no source for Steve Rotherham actually saying this.

 

[507021]

Still no source for Steve Rotherham actually saying this.

I was thinking that myself. Even so, it's still been an interesting debate.

 

[edwin_m]

Dingle station cavern kinda still exists, doesn't it?

Wikipedia claims it was "repaired" after the collapse in 2012 but gives no details. Most likely it was infilled to make it safe at minimum cost and risk to the workforce.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

I've been giving this some thought. How about naming the station after a locally important historical figure ? For Saint James, I suggest " Bessie Braddock".

Or better still re-name James Street as Liverpool Waterfront.

I think Parliament Street or Baltic Triangle would be a suitable name for Liverpool St James.

It should be named after Ken Dodd, surely?

It would have to be open for 24 hours to match the length of one of his shows, though!

 

[daikilo]

Still no source for Steve Rotherham actually saying this.

I tried trawling his facebook pages and in particular the videos. I didn't find anything before I gave up, but in one video dated early February he did talk about regeneration (which I understand he does all the time) and also his support for a 'northern west-east crossrail" (without describing what it is to be). I am certainly challenged to believe he could have suggested it as a "tourist attraction" as I did not notice those words anywhere in what I read/watched.

 

[Lankyline]

It should be named after Ken Dodd, surely?

It would have to be open for 24 hours to match the length of one of his shows, though!

A better name would be Dodge city station

If this is even remotely true, it's just another political soundbite

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Is there an image somewhere that overlays the exact route and alignment of the overhead railway onto a current Google Earth image?

 

[daikilo]

Is there an image somewhere that overlays the exact route and alignment of the overhead railway onto a current Google Earth image?

I don't have that, but the dock section ran from Seaforth Sands to the bend toward Dingle literally within feet of the landward end of evey dock and the Liver building. Much of it had the docklands freight lines underneath at ground level.

I do have maps in books but they are copyright.

 

[Bevan Price]

The main users of LOR were the thousands of dockers working in the numerous docks stretching for several miles along the riverbank. Tourists were a minority, and sadly, although I saw parts of the LOR, I never travelled on it.

It was the sort of thing you expected to last forever, and it closed with relatively little notice before I had a ride.

As Liverpool residents & visitors will know, the working docks (& dockers) have mostly gone, and much of the LOR alignment (site) is not quite close enough to residential or shopping areas to attract lots of passengers.

 

[edwin_m]

Is there an image somewhere that overlays the exact route and alignment of the overhead railway onto a current Google Earth image?

Zoom in from the link below and you'll eventually locate it in orange. Most of it is difficult to see because it had dock lines underneath it and the map-maker has drawn these in front of the LOR.

A choice of background mapping is available. Warning: seriously addictive site!

http://www.railmaponline.com/UKIEMap.php

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Zoom in from the link below and you'll eventually locate it in orange. Most of it is difficult to see because it had dock lines underneath it and the map-maker has drawn these in front of the LOR.

A choice of background mapping is available. Warning: seriously addictive site!

http://www.railmaponline.com/UKIEMap.php

Cheers for the link! Looked up more locally on that site, they've not quite got the plotting right in one place but it looks like an old industrial railway used to run within a few yards of my front door

 

[Bevan Price]

Is there an image somewhere that overlays the exact route and alignment of the overhead railway onto a current Google Earth image?

You can follow the LOR alignment on this map - look for the station symbols (red circles) on / near the dock road. You will probably need to zoom in / out of the map at various locations to see and appreciate more detail:


http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/m...4&xMax=3231727.52139147&yMax=3038282.92239164

 

[martin2345uk]

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/features/index.shtml

Lots of info on this page (one of my favourite websites!)

 

[Joe Paxton]

Still no source for Steve Rotherham actually saying this.

You must have missed the memo... actual facts don't matter any more in 2017...