Even now, the majority of the Liverpool to Norwich trains are four car as far as Nottingham.
Afraid not. Not even 50% of the Nott's-Liverpool services are diagrammed for four car sets at the minute. IIRR 07:52 Liv-Not, 06:40 Not-Liv (and return) 14:45 and 15:45 Not-Liv's (and return) and 21:36 Liv-Not are the only one's.
The plan is that when the four 156's arrive (later this year we're informed) they will be used to displace 158's off Skegness services and allow them to make all Not-Liv services four car, with the rear set being detached at Nottingham, then running round to strengthen the next Liverpool bound service.
This sounds great on paper, but in the real world units refuse to couple, units fail and so the strengthening set gets pinched to deputise, as happens frequently now. To be honest, whilst four coaches on all trains is a great step forward, i can see performance issues arising for the reasons mentioned above.
I notice another poster mentioned that EMT had stated that 158's were the correct units for the route. I've not seen or heard this myself. It certainly didn't come from someone who had driven 158's over the route, which are constantly at full power and still not attaining the potential speeds as they just aren't powerful enough. As mentioned in another thread, i worked a 222 to Liverpool the other week, and it easily kept time everywhere enroute, even over the Hope Valley where it was restricted to 70mph maximum. The reason for this was the better acceleration and ability to maintain speed. Even climbing Normans Bank between Earles and Edale, we easily maintained 70mph on about a quarter power, wheras a 158 would be wide open and losing speed.
The apparent sticking point for using better stock is the 45mph restriction for non-Sprinters between Ely and Lakenheath. Not really an issue as a 222 could do 125 between Grantham and P'boro, thus with a little tweaking of paths the same journey time should be possible. It has even been mentioned that, in the not too distant future, the 45mph restriction may be done away with.
Another possibility is that, with the current plan being to shunt Norwich bound passengers from the rear 158 onto the front one at Nott's (Because as we all know, everyone listens to the announcements about being in the correct portion of the train don't they? :roll: ) just run a 222 on the Liverpool bit, and do a set swap at Nott's with a 158 going forward.
The real reason you couldn't run 222's regularly on the Nott's Liverpools, is simply that there are not enough of them in the world, all available being on the London's leaving perhaps one for maintenance.
I've always advocated getting 180's for the route, and also releasing 222's from carting fresh air about between Kettering and Corby by substituting a 153 to shuttle between the two. Unfortunately i'm only a Driver and people with more egg on their hats than me get to make the decisions. Perhaps when the franchise comes up for renewal it'll be for a longer, say 15year time period. Maybe then there will be some incentive for the operator, whoever that will be, to invest in some new stock for the route and see a return on the investment.
I have been very fortunate then: The vast majority of the time my experiences of the Liverpool to Norwich trains have been of four car trains. I thought that this was indicative of the service as a whole, ta for the correction, and thanks for a very informative post.
) but 185s have a better door configuration to deal with the Sheffield - Manchester - Liverpool crowds. If you've ever seen a 158 struggling to unload/load on this stretch, you'll know what I mean..
