Liverpool Lime Street woes.

[dojo]

I tend to browse this forum more often than posting, but I notice that there are lots of people who realise how disconnected Lime Street is from many other parts of the country.

Whilst googling, I found this pretty old document:
http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.com/pa/cm200708/cmselect/cmtran/219/219we61.htm

I'm sure it has been brought up before, but how difficult would it be for the relevant authorities to give Liverpool some Scotland services, put it back on the CrossCountry map and, heck, continue many of Piccadilly's long distance services (Bournemouth, for example) on to Liverpool?

I just get sad when I know I have to change somewhere like Wigan or Crewe, lovely places, erm, but with populations about 70% smaller than Liverpool, how does this make sense?

It's easy to blame Liverpool's location, and lack of ability for through services (unless you shove some more trains onto the Merseyrail platforms!), but I still reckon it's ridiculous how cut off Liverpool is from the network in comparison to other places.

Maybe it's just silly Liverpool pride.

 

[bluenoxid]

It makes sense because that is how the network is set up. It would be great to route more trains to Liverpool but you can't exactly squeeze much more through P13/14 at Piccadic.

 

[dojo]

Well at some point Liverpool was adorned with more trains (or more varied services) than it currently is, so the network clearly made it possible for some time. It is because of an increase in XYZ-Piccadilly services that continuing onto Liverpool is improbable?

 

[gordonthemoron]

I remeber getting an intercity from Lancaster to Liverpool (and back) in late 1977 or early 1978

 

[bluenoxid]

Well at some point Liverpool was adorned with more trains (or more varied services) than it currently is, so the network clearly made it possible for some time. It is because of an increase in XYZ-Piccadilly services that continuing onto Liverpool is improbable?

Yup

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windsor_Link

That has taken a lot of the capacity out

 

[tbtc]

What surprises me is the lack of service from Liverpool to North Wales. Everytime I'm in Bangor etc it seems full of Scousers (either on holiday, or who've moved there). Surely there's a market for a direct servce (rather than changing at Chester).

I suppose one other reason may be Manchester Airport. Since it's there, a number of services from Newcastle/ York/ Leeds/ Sheffield etc after Manchester (and the Glasgow/ Edinburgh services only go to Manchester/ Airport these days), rather than runing to Liverpool.

I'd have said that the lack of electrification to Wigan was a reason for lack of services north on the WCML, but (thinking about it) that doesn't stop Manchester getting DMUs via Bolton, or Birmingham (which has wires, but still DMUs to Glasgow/ Edinburgh).

 

[bluenoxid]

Apart from its superb suburban system, Liverpool has got a few short straws.

There are a number of things that could improve. Electrification towards Manchester with better interchanging at Wigan especially with Scottish bound services will help. Currently there is a train that does Liverpool to Man Ox Rd and Deansgate to somewhere south of Manchester. They could be rolled into one with a retimetabling effort.

The welsh connection is a desperate need. I do feel that the full electrification to Wrexham is a wasted effort for an hourly service. More effort put into reopening Halton ??? curve in both directions (just a mere £12 million compared to £207 million recently quoted for the electrification of the Wrexham route) would reap more benefits.

If more services were proposed to Manchester, being unafraid of using Man Vic instead. Connections could be boosted by running through to Stockport.

Also north of Liverpool, there really is an advantage to be gained for pushing to Skelmersdale and Burscough Bridge with electrification especially with the interchange opportunities gained at the latter.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

It certainly seems that Liverpool suffers badly from the Manchester obsession. It would appear that, especially with long distance services, the choice is Manchester OR Liverpool. There is little scope for services into Manchester (esp Piccadilly) to continue on to Liverpool.

Personally, I think better connections at Warrington would help in the short term until a more robust plan was put in place. With Liverpool - Manchester trains using Central and WCML using Bank Quay, the option for a quick connection is not available. Perhaps better integration of the two stations would improve connections. Certainly connecting is not ideal, but the increase in choice has to be an improvement over the current situation.

 

[bluenoxid]

It's also not helped by Liverpool having quite a tight and constricted terminus.

 

[dojo]

How realistic is it to see Central (re)become Liverpool's second terminal for longer distance services? You'll have to excuse my ignorance.

 

[ukrob]

How realistic is it to see Central (re)become Liverpool's second terminal for longer distance services? You'll have to excuse my ignorance.

Not realistic at all. There is no land above ground (that is not already used or spoken for).

 

[dojo]

Yeah, it was a pretty stupid question. Meh, even if Virgin just made Lime Street to Euston half hourly at peak, it'd put a smile on my face (and many others). Are Manc's 3tph often full?

 

[ukrob]

Yeah, it was a pretty stupid question. Meh, even if Virgin just made Lime Street to Euston half hourly at peak, it'd put a smile on my face (and many others). Are Manc's 3tph often full?

It is better than hourly in the peaks.

0527, 0605, 0700, 0748 towards Euston. The return towards Liverpool is much better spaced with departures at 1707, 1733, 1807 and 1833.

 

[adamp]

Arent Virgin stopping services to Liverpool?
Some ned who knows everything told me last week...

-Adam

 

[ukrob]

Arent Virgin stopping services to Liverpool?
Some ned who knows everything told me last week...

-Adam

Lol. A tad unlikely considerng how profitable it is and how they are just finishing a first class lounge. No doubt a rumour which started from a Mancunian.

 

[jopsuk]

Lol. A tad unlikely considerng how profitable it is and how they are just finishing a first class lounge. No doubt a rumour which started from a Mancunian.

Or a scouser who reckons the world is a conspiracy against Liverpool? Not that there's any of those, mind.

 

[ukrob]

Or a scouser who reckons the world is a conspiracy against Liverpool? Not that there's any of those, mind.

A scouser wouldn't start a rumour that Virgin are pulling out of Liverpool so I fail to see your contribution to the subject?

From Rob, who is not a scouser.

 

[adamp]

Actually this lad was a BRUMMIE!