Liverpool Lime Street Overhead Wire Problems 7-1-18

[driver_m]

Nothing currently running in and out of Lime St due to OLE damage found to existing structures.

 

[M60lad]

Major problems at Liverpool Lime Street with nothing running into or out off the station for the remainder of the day due to overhead wire problems:


Damage to the electric wires at Liverpool Lime Street has resulted in disruption to trains at this station.

Trains may be cancelled or revised.

Disruption is expected until the end of the service.

Advice for London Northwestern Railway customers:

All services are starting/terminating at Liverpool South Parkway.

Road transport is running between Liverpool South Parkway and Liverpool Lime Street, operated by Aman's Travel.

You may use:

• Virgin Trains on any reasonable routes.
• Arriva Trains Wales between Crewe and Chester
• Merseyrail between Chester and Liverpool Lime Street

Advice for Northern customers:

Northern are currently in the process of sourcing replacement road transport.

The following service amendments will occur:

• Services between Liverpool Lime Street and Preston will be cancelled
• Services between Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester Airport will start/terminate at Edge Hill
• Services between Liverpool Lime Street and Wigan North Western will start/terminate at Huyton
• Services between Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester Oxford Road will start/terminate at Liverpool South Parkway

Advice for TransPennine Express customers:

Trains between Liverpool Lime Street and Scarborough will start/terminate at Liverpool South Parkway until the end of service.

Replacement road transport will be in operation between Liverpool Lime Street and Liverpool South Parkway.

Advice for Virgin Trains customers:

Train services are starting/terminating at Warrington Bank Quay.

Rail replacement buses are conveying passengers between Liverpool Lime Street and Warrington Bank Quay via Runcorn.

You may use London Northwestern Railway between Crewe and Runcorn.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Although when I looked at RTT, VT had started 2 early services at Runcorn.
It seems they are not resurrecting the turnround of VT services at Liverpool South Parkway.
Merseyrail are bustituting the southern end of the Northern line today, which won't help.
Routeing via Chester looks OK though.

 

[WatcherZero]

This is on a already disruptive day when Bolton line is closed for engineering work and all trains diverted.

 

[nw-sparks]

Nothing currently running in and out of Lime St due to OLE damage found to existing structures.

Do we know what's broken? National Rail says "Damage to the Electric Wires", TRUST says "Bridges/tunnels/buildings (other than bridge strikes)".

 

[driver_m]

Corrosion Damage to a structure in the cutting.

 

[furnessvale]

Reported elsewhere that it is actually the overhead steelwork supporting the wires that has corroded badly.

I would have thought such structures would have been subject to a regular inspection regime, like bridges. If they aren't already, I'll wager they will be in the future.

 

[B&I]

Somewhere in the middle of nowhere I could maybe understand this being missed but at the entrance to a major terminus? Oh well, with this and the strikes looks like it's an hour on the bus for.me to.get anywhere tomorrow.

 

[ajdunlop]

The National Rail information on the incident says that services may be effected tomorrow. If I’m the damage is that bad how was it not spotted until now.

 

[WatcherZero]

Saying it will take 2 days to repair now.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Also staying closed tomorrow, according to BBC Radio 5.
There's a lot of new OHLE equipment in the cutting (gantries, droppers etc), maybe the fault is related to the upgrade.
OHLE problems on the North Staffs line today also, affecting Manchester services.

 

[AMD]

Network Rail images from the gantry causing the problem.

 

[furnessvale]

Network Rail images from the gantry causing the problem.

That's not just happened, which rather confirms my thoughts on the lack of regular inspections.

 

[M60lad]

Considering the rest of the Schools go back tomorrow I'm guessing various bus/coach operators are going to be stretched tomorrow as as well as Schools they'll be having to fit in Rail Replacement work into their busy schedules as well on top of possibe Private Hires they'll be doing.

 

[nw-sparks]

Corrosion Damage to a structure in the cutting.

Thanks for that.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That's not just happened, which rather confirms my thoughts on the lack of regular inspections.

Haven't there been a couple of instances in the past where signals have fallen over and upon investigation the bases were found to be corroded away? Pretty sure one such instance was on the Berks and Hants near Newbury.

So this isn't a new thing to happen either... so there should already have been awareness.

 

[8A Rail]

That's not just happened, which rather confirms my thoughts on the lack of regular inspections.

And there will be more, that is for sure. Must remember, I suspect most of the overhead gantries will be from the 1960's when they first put up. Although, Lime St Cutting is an awkward location, I am surprised there are (what seems to be) no regular checks on the structures especially in the light of the wall collapsing last year.

 

[2000]

Expect to run a normal service tomorrow now:

https://twitter.com/nationalrailenq/status/950020399009583106

 

[furnessvale]

Expect to run a normal service tomorrow now:

https://twitter.com/nationalrailenq/status/950020399009583106

Good. I would have hoped a quick scaffolding bridge could have been strung up minimising delays.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Heavy duty damage. All the zinc from the galv is long gone. Moisture and dissolved salts from rocks has exacerbated the corrosion. Expect all 1950s and 60s structures across the network to get an inspection this year.

 

[Mag_seven]

That's not just happened, which rather confirms my thoughts on the lack of regular inspections.

Well when you cut staff numbers what do you expect.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Heavy duty damage. All the zinc from the galv is long gone. Moisture and dissolved salts from rocks has exacerbated the corrosion. Expect all 1950s and 60s structures across the network to get an inspection this year.

What's odd is that you'd expect replacement of corroding structures to be exactly what the current upgrade project is about.
There are new wires and gantries down there for the new layout, and it's still a work in progress.
There are new slots and fixings in the cutting walls waiting for new steelwork.
It reminds me of the sudden need to replace ancient signal wiring at Bletchley, just before the whole lot was replaced anyway for the new ROC signalling.
The Lime St approach has been hardly touched since electrification 55 years ago.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Either way NR do not come out of this episode smelling of roses. Nature taking is course then no nurture from NR. Sad

 

[Railman]

Totally embarrasing, where are all the managers who appear out of the wood work as soon as the press attend a staion refurbishment etc? They should be in front of the camera now appologising to everyone.

 

[B&I]

That's not just happened, which rather confirms my thoughts on the lack of regular inspections.

If they're incapable of spotting a cutting wall about to collapse, it's unlikely they'd spot a corroded gantry. Trying to be positive about this whole sorry affair, are there any forms of sensor technology which could be used to automatically monitor the condition of infrastructure at awkward locations like this?

 

[GW43125]

If they're incapable of spotting a cutting wall about to collapse, it's unlikely they'd spot a corroded gantry. Trying to be positive about this whole sorry affair, are there any forms of sensor technology which could be used to automatically monitor the condition of infrastructure at awkward locations like this?

I suppose that at a basic level you could pass a small current through it, such that when severe corrosion causes it to start flaking off, the circuit is broken, but this would probably create more problems than it solves with conductivity issues etc (think of wet weather track circuits).

 

[furnessvale]

If they're incapable of spotting a cutting wall about to collapse, it's unlikely they'd spot a corroded gantry. Trying to be positive about this whole sorry affair, are there any forms of sensor technology which could be used to automatically monitor the condition of infrastructure at awkward locations like this?

Initially, I would go down the route of fitting high quality cameras to the measurement train. The output could be manually reviewed in the comfort of the office, with a view to developing automatic systems ASAP.

 

[BMIFlyer]

Potentially only 2 lines open into Lime St tomorrow, so I'd at least expect a few minor delays. Scaffolding currently being erected on the up slow. Should all be done by 4am Monday all being well.

 

[twpsaesneg]

Heavy duty damage. All the zinc from the galv is long gone. Moisture and dissolved salts from rocks has exacerbated the corrosion. Expect all 1950s and 60s structures across the network to get an inspection this year.

Pre Galvanising. Just paint. And asset policy has changed from wholesale repainting to patch only when corrosion appears.

These structures are in an awful location to inspect unforunately, probably why it's got this bad...

The upgrade projects rarely look to replace structures as it's not in their budget. In a joined up railway they would but there's usually a bun fight about who pays so it doesn't get done. The opex vs capex spend fight that's been going on since the beginning of time....

 

[furnessvale]

Pre Galvanising. Just paint. And asset policy has changed from wholesale repainting to patch only when corrosion appears.

These structures are in an awful location to inspect unforunately, probably why it's got this bad...

The upgrade projects rarely look to replace structures as it's not in their budget. In a joined up railway they would but there's usually a bun fight about who pays so it doesn't get done. The opex vs capex spend fight that's been going on since the beginning of time....

If nobody looks, how will they see corrosion when it does appear?

Nothing wrong with the change of policy you mention, provided it is accompanied by a proper inspection regime.