Liverpool Lime St remodelling

[daikilo]

Always an EMU.
Merseyrail don't do anything else.
It just saves a couple of EMUs for other work (and reduces Hooton-Liverpool to the 4tph Chester trains).

Yes, but others do, and it is not unusual to hire stock and crew for short-term cover.

 

[Bevan Price]

I would assume it's because Merseyrail want to have as many 6 car sets on routes such as South Parkway to Liverpool/Southport, and Liverpool - Chester as alternatives.

Maybe they should have taken on some of the former South Eastern 508's when they had the chance?

I think those available were considered "too knackered" for repairs to be "economically affordable".

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Yes, but others do, and it is not unusual to hire stock and crew for short-term cover.

Merseytravel define the service level, and must be happy with the temporary reduction.
The branch retains 2tph, just with a longer journey time and change at Hooton.
The main impact really is Hooton-Liverpool which loses 2tph.
We've just had 6 months of reduced timetable for the Loop works, so they are not going to do anything more for the few weeks of Lime St disruption.

 

[6Gman]

I used to organise cross-TOC hires for a living.

The thought of arranging a hire-in (cleared stock, route knowledge & traction knowledge) for Ellesmere Port - Liverpool would be ... challenging.

 

[Class 170101]

I would assume it's because Merseyrail want to have as many 6 car sets on routes such as South Parkway to Liverpool/Southport, and Liverpool - Chester as alternatives.

Maybe they should have taken on some of the former South Eastern 508's when they had the chance?

Would 313s be any good?

 

[Gareth]

I don't think Merseyrail will take any units that aren't refurbished up to the standards of its current fleet. 313s may be similar to the 507/8s but if there are any technical differences in operating then, then that means driver/guard training too.

There may have been an argument a few years back to take some of the redundant 508s from Southeastern but it was deemed not worth refurbishing them. I think the plan for the new rolling stock has been delayed a fair few years and was due to come online around now or 2018. If they knew that back then, then maybe they would've reconsidered. But we're where we are until the new fleet arrives (which also seems worryingly small).

 

[8A Rail]

I was at Liverpool South Parkway Station earlier today and I had notice a "new" signal has appeared at the south end of the up slow "extended" platform (4) which I assume will "temporary" replace Signal AN5 which is currently at the end of the existing Platform 4. This would suggest the latter signal will be dismantled when the extended platform comes live at the end of September. Also notice they have put the "car" signs up at the relevant places along the platform too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So they'll still run to Central but passengers have to change to other trains (as they no doubt will rather than walking, so Central will still be busy)? That'll be popular. If they need them out of the way why not use the Central reversing siding?

 

[childwallblues]

So they'll still run to Central but passengers have to change to other trains (as they no doubt will rather than walking, so Central will still be busy)? That'll be popular. If they need them out of the way why not use the Central reversing siding?

All Mersyrail trains from South Parkway run to Southport.

 

[Bletchleyite]

All Mersyrail trains from South Parkway run to Southport.

I'm referring to Ormskirk and Kirkby trains.

 

[Ianno87]

So they'll still run to Central but passengers have to change to other trains (as they no doubt will rather than walking, so Central will still be busy)? That'll be popular. If they need them out of the way why not use the Central reversing siding?

There *must* be some sensible logic Merseyrail have applied for crowd control. I would imagine it is genuinely to encourage as many Ormskirk/Kirkby passengers as possible to walk to Moorfields (and effectively 'forcing' any people changing to/from the Wirral Line to do so there).

Plus, having a simple 'Southbound platform for South Parkway, Northbound platform for Moorfields and Southport' makes a queueing system much easier to organise and enforce, especially in a constrained station like Central. The 'normal' platform usage sees Kirkby trains turning back in one platform and Ormskirk trains in the other, which would be a nightmare to manage with crowds on/off the other trains.

Turning at Moorfields may also mean that a second driver can get on the rear cab to assist with a quick reversal at Central without releasimg the doors (maximising remaining platform space to allow for longer dwell times of South Parkway services)

Remember also that on a weekday, the split of usage between Moorfields and Central is much more even than its is on a weekend, so the number of passengers forced to walk might not be quite as high as you might expect compared to a Saturday.

 

[KevinTurvey]

Just a quick note on progress to say track laying has now commenced. Sleepers are in place to both of the new platforms.

Only 2 weeks to go!

 

[adam9413]

Will the new platforms be used after Phase 1 or after Phase 2 in 2018?

 

[Skie]

Extra ticket machines going in at South Parkway apparently.

 

[johnmoly]

There are ticket machines going in all over Merseyside, one recently installed at Edge Hill and other places, all manned stations as well.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I picked up the VT leaflet about the Lime St service alterations today.
There is a timetable which shows connections to/from South Parkway on Merseyrail.
But the station entries are rather odd.
One is for "Liverpool Central (Northern)".
Another is for "Moorfields HL/NL".

What has Northern got to do with Liverpool Central?
What does HL/NL mean?

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

I picked up the VT leaflet about the Lime St service alterations today.
There is a timetable which shows connections to/from South Parkway on Merseyrail.
But the station entries are rather odd.
One is for "Liverpool Central (Northern)".
Another is for "Moorfields HL/NL".

What has Northern got to do with Liverpool Central?
What does HL/NL mean?

HL - Higher Level ??
NL - Northern Line ??

Possibly because the Wirral line is below it so they are describing it as higher level even though it isn't as such.

 

[Polarbear]

I picked up the VT leaflet about the Lime St service alterations today.
There is a timetable which shows connections to/from South Parkway on Merseyrail.
But the station entries are rather odd.
One is for "Liverpool Central (Northern)".
Another is for "Moorfields HL/NL".

What has Northern got to do with Liverpool Central?
What does HL/NL mean?

I'd guess the reference to 'Northern' in the context of Liverpool Central would be to do with the Northern Line platforms being used?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

HL - Higher Level ??
NL - Northern Line ??
Possibly because the Wirral line is below it so they are describing it as higher level even though it isn't as such.

I'd guess the reference to 'Northern' in the context of Liverpool Central would be to do with the Northern Line platforms being used?

Yes, maybe that's it, just identifying the platforms.
I somehow thought Northern meant the TOC!

 

[johnmoly]

At Moorfields, and for that matter Central, I'm under the impression that the Northern Line is classed as Low level, and the Wirral as Deep level, seeing as its under the Northern line.

 

[Arcadia77]

The temporary platform at South Parkway appears to be complete!

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...pool-south-parkway-platform-extended-13672725

Liverpool South Parkway platform extended to get ready for Lime Street trains

Liverpool South Parkway station has been upgraded so it can welcome trains from Lime Street when the city centre station closes.

Liverpool Lime Street will be closed from September 30 for 23 days. During the closure, many passengers will have to change at South Parkway for connections into the city centre.

So Network Rail has extended Platform 4 at the station so it can accommodate the longer Liverpool to London trains.

The work saw the temporary 150m extension built on scaffolding around existing overhead line structures. A signal also had to be moved to make way for the extension.

Sean Hyland, senior project manager at Network Rail, said: “Liverpool South Parkway station is going to act as a major interchange station during Lime Street’s major transformation.

“In order to prepare for this we’ve completed vital platform extension works at the station to allow passengers travelling on Virgin services to alight at South Parkway during the upgrade, ready to pick up the next Merseyrail service into Liverpool.”

Frank Rogers, chief executive at Merseytravel, said: “The work completed at Liverpool South Parkway represents our commitment not only to providing quality transport services but to keeping people moving during the Lime Street Station upgrade.

“Transport providers have worked together to provide services to keep people moving and it’s really important that customers, both local and from further afield, plan ahead and familiarise themselves with the alternative arrangements so they can continue to get about easily and seamlessly during the works.”

The work on Lime Street will mean the station can handle an extra three services an hour, including direct services to Scotland. It will be given longer platforms with more space for passengers, while overhead power lines will also be extended.

The station will be closed twice – one starting this month and another next summer.

The RMT has confirmed two strike dates on October 3 and October 5, when Lime Street is closed, over Merseytravel’s plans to introduce driver-operated trains and remove guards from trains.

 

[The Lad]

I wonder how much 150m of temporary platform cost?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I wonder how much 150m of temporary platform cost?

Maybe it's what was used recently at Chorley for the temporary platform there, or at Leyland.

 

[Grumpy]

I wonder how much 150m of temporary platform cost?

Or if a bit of scaffolding with wooden boards on top (and fitted in around the ohle) is safe enough for unloading trainloads of inter city passengers, why is something more expensive required for potential country reopenings?

 

[Holly]

I imagine that quite many people will find Liverpool South Parkway to be more convenient than Liverpool Lime Street and would wish that the temporary arrangement be made permanent.

 

[8A Rail]

I imagine that quite many people will find Liverpool South Parkway to be more convenient than Liverpool Lime Street and would wish that the temporary arrangement be made permanent.

May I ask how you work that out please? More convenient for what? Given that LSP is approx 5 miles away from Liverpool City Centre, not sure is that convenient.

 

[8A Rail]

Yes, maybe that's it, just identifying the platforms.
I somehow thought Northern meant the TOC!

"Northern" (Arriva) referring to the TOC only came about last year. Prior to that it was "Northern Rail". The "Northern Line" (Merseyrail) came in to being around 1977 (I think) so there is really no confusion as such.

 

[frodshamfella]

May I ask how you work that out please? More convenient for what? Given that LSP is approx 5 miles away from Liverpool City Centre, not sure is that convenient.

I suppose some people will want to go to South Liverpool anyway, so getting off at South Parkway would be better for them. However I can't see Virgin wanting to make another stop on their London service long term, maybe if two an hour, one calling at Runcorn and one for South Parkway. Just hypothetical.

 

[Nean]

I suppose some people will want to go to South Liverpool anyway, so getting off at South Parkway would be better for them. However I can't see Virgin wanting to make another stop on their London service long term, maybe if two an hour, one calling at Runcorn and one for South Parkway. Just hypothetical.

I'm one of those people wanting the Parkway stop to be made permanent- It's slightly annoying having to go 30-60 minutes into Liverpool to get a train to London when I could just go 1 stop down the Northern Line!

 

[frodshamfella]

I'm one of those people wanting the Parkway stop to be made permanent- It's slightly annoying having to go 30-60 minutes into Liverpool to get a train to London when I could just go 1 stop down the Northern Line!

Yes I can see how annoying it must be. I'm sure there would be a demand from South Parkway to have some sort of Euston service.