Liverpool Baltic Station construction - speculation

[Bletchleyite]

Creating this alongside the other thread to discuss the proposed service during construction and other speculation surrounding this, so the main thread can be kept to what is happening rather than what should be.

A year is a long time for an entire "metro" line to be "bustituted". (Hopefully they will also do Cressington platforms at the same time!)

Would it be feasible for Northern to operate, using a DMU, a South Parkway to Brunswick service? Or to upgrade the stopping service to Hunts Cross using the Merseyrail bay by adding two additional trains per hour to Lime St on the barely-used slow lines? Just putting a bus on seems rather defeatist. I guess a shuttle with 777s might be hard because there'd be no way to get them to Kirkdale depot, but what about from the other side?

 

[karlbbb]

Creating this alongside the other thread to discuss the proposed service during construction and other speculation surrounding this, so the main thread can be kept to what is happening rather than what should be.

A year is a long time for an entire "metro" line to be "bustituted". (Hopefully they will also do Cressington platforms at the same time!)

Would it be feasible for Northern to operate, using a DMU, a South Parkway to Brunswick service? Or to upgrade the stopping service to Hunts Cross using the Merseyrail bay by adding two additional trains per hour to Lime St on the barely-used slow lines? Just putting a bus on seems rather defeatist. I guess a shuttle with 777s might be hard because there'd be no way to get them to Kirkdale depot, but what about from the other side?

The only crossover points are at South Parkway and I don't believe (almost certain) the lines are signalled for bi-directional so I'd have to defer to someone who understands the rules to know if a single DMU set running back and forth up that line would be allowed. Add to this the closure time would be an ideal period to "fix" Cressington a DMU running up and down would be in the way.

I'd also imagine the lines being free would be ideal for construction traffic to get out onto the "main lines", so one has to expect the closure would be entirely bustituted as you say!

 

[jamesst]

Creating this alongside the other thread to discuss the proposed service during construction and other speculation surrounding this, so the main thread can be kept to what is happening rather than what should be.

A year is a long time for an entire "metro" line to be "bustituted". (Hopefully they will also do Cressington platforms at the same time!)

Would it be feasible for Northern to operate, using a DMU, a South Parkway to Brunswick service? Or to upgrade the stopping service to Hunts Cross using the Merseyrail bay by adding two additional trains per hour to Lime St on the barely-used slow lines? Just putting a bus on seems rather defeatist. I guess a shuttle with 777s might be hard because there'd be no way to get them to Kirkdale depot, but what about from the other side?

No chance. And Cressington platforms aren't going to change.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Just putting a bus on seems rather defeatist.

I'd say a bus makes the most sense, though.

From Cressington and Aigburth its not particularly far to West Allerton if you really don't want to use the bus. From St Michaels and Brunswick its going to be quicker to take the bus rather than take a train out through South Parkway, especially if they run the buses along the relatively quiet Riverside Drive to Liverpool One bus station.

I just hope they don't run the RRBs on the same city centre loop as they run the 500, as its the bit from Liverpool One to St James (ironically) which causes the chronic poor timekeeping on that route.

 

[Kite159]

Or to upgrade the stopping service to Hunts Cross using the Merseyrail bay by adding two additional trains per hour to Lime St on the barely-used slow lines?

They will still need to cross over from the slow lines to the fast line platforms at South Parkway due to the location of the junction. It probably would be better if Northern ran an EMU shuttle from Lime Street to South Parkway, assuming paths are available on the 2 track section near Edge Hill depot.

 

[The exile]

No chance. And Cressington platforms aren't going to change.

Presumably a South Parkway to Brunswick shuttle could be done using a single DMU “locked” in on a single line, but I would imagine even that would be considered “too hard” (or not worth it - which may well be the case)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is it feasible for WMT to add calls at West Allerton so it can have 3tph rather than 2? This is probably the best sited station to assist those losing service for a time, because it's about a kilometre from both Aigburth and Cressington which while a fair way is walkable. That does leave St Michaels and Brunswick, but they may well just choose to use a service bus rather than a RRB as it's cheaper with the bus fare cap in place. The 2tph there might be enough though, it's what I'd use if I lived near one of those stations.

It's probably a bit questionable as to whether a dedicated RRB is really needed given the high frequency of service along the main road there. Acceptance (mainly of through rail tickets and Merseyrail-only DaySavers - everyone else would pay the bus fare as it'd be cheaper) might be enough, which if Merseytravel are regulating buses they can just put in place.

 

[M28361M]

Presumably a South Parkway to Brunswick shuttle could be done using a single DMU “locked” in on a single line, but I would imagine even that would be considered “too hard” (or not worth it - which may well be the case)

There is precedent for this. In 1993(?) when the new signalling at Sandhills was being commissioned, the Northern Line through Liverpool Central was out of action for some weeks. There was a rail shuttle service between St Michaels and Hunts Cross with single line working in operation on some of the route. No DMUs though, it was all operated with the usual Merseyrail EMUs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is precedent for this. In 1993(?) when the new signalling at Sandhills was being commissioned, the Northern Line through Liverpool Central was out of action for some weeks. There was a rail shuttle service between St Michaels and Hunts Cross with single line working in operation on some of the route. No DMUs though, it was all operated with the usual Merseyrail EMUs.

How did they get them to/from the depot, or was it a short enough period they could be maintained remotely or dragged to Allerton?

Presumably it doesn't help that Stadler maintain the 777s, as it's then not as easy just to ask Northern to look after a couple at Allerton for a bit.

 

[FrontSideBus]

Do you think they will extend the tunnel section for longer platforms? The area looks rather small when you go past on a train!

 

[jamesst]

Do you think they will extend the tunnel section for longer platforms? The area looks rather small when you go past on a train!

Thats the plan

 

[urbophile]

The only crossover points are at South Parkway and I don't believe (almost certain) the lines are signalled for bi-directional so I'd have to defer to someone who understands the rules to know if a single DMU set running back and forth up that line would be allowed. Add to this the closure time would be an ideal period to "fix" Cressington a DMU running up and down would be in the way.

What could be 'fixed' at Cressington? the main problem would be the platform extensions which are too narrow to be safely used apparently.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jan 2026 ==

Do you think they will extend the tunnel section for longer platforms? The area looks rather small when you go past on a train!

I believe that originally the line through St James/ Baltic was three track. That should allow enough space for platforms alongside the existing double track.

 

[Mr. SW]

If you look at the plans here : https://lar.liverpool.gov.uk/planning/index.html?fa=getApplication&id=172729
and scroll down to "Platform-Level-Plan-Proposed" (not full link), you'll see that the tracks are to be slewed slightly by twisting them to the west at the north end and to the east at the south to obtain sufficient width for the slightly staggered platforms.

 

[Grumpy Git]

What could be 'fixed' at Cressington? the main problem would be the platform extensions which are too narrow to be safely used apparently.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jan 2026 ==


I believe that originally the line through St James/ Baltic was three track. That should allow enough space for platforms alongside the existing double track.

You could widen the platform extensions at the north-end of Cressington, but you would need to also rebuild the road overbridge as the arch is too narrow at platform level.

 

[urbophile]

You could widen the platform extensions at the north-end of Cressington, but you would need to also rebuild the road overbridge as the arch is too narrow at platform level.

No you couldn't, not without demolishing the retaining walls, excavating back into the cutting, and rebuilding the walls. No way would this be worth the effort and expense.

 

[Mag_seven]

Thread unlocked

 

[MR-507508]

It would appear no trains running on Hunts Cross line, past Liverpool Central in both directions, from WC 12th October 2026 for 4 weeks. Presumably due to the new station Liverpool Baltic.

 

[urbophile]

It would appear no trains running on Hunts Cross line, past Liverpool Central in both directions, from WC 12th October 2026 for 4 weeks. Presumably due to the new station Liverpool Baltic.

Let's hope that's the reason. I'm happy to put up with the inconvenience if that is so.

 

[MR-507508]

The closure of the line may have something to do with Steve Rotheram's recent interview whereby he mentioned plans are moving too slowly for progress with the new station, please see link below.....

City's rail station plan moving too slowly, says mayor

Steve Rotheram says delays to the Liverpool Baltic scheme are "disappointing" and "the bane of my life".

www.bbc.com

 

[Djgr]

City's rail station plan moving too slowly, says mayor

Steve Rotheram says delays to the Liverpool Baltic scheme are "disappointing" and "the bane of my life".

www.bbc.com

Yes. It is impossible to achieve anything real and material in this country. Plenty of spreadsheets though.

 

[MR-507508]

It is being reported elsewhere, this period of closure of the line is due to tunnel repairs and signalling works. However, a prolonged period of closure is likely to be expected for this line once the construction of Liverpool Baltic gets underway, whenever that will be.......

 

[urbophile]

It is being reported elsewhere, this period of closure of the line is due to tunnel repairs and signalling works. However, a prolonged period of closure is likely to be expected for this line once the construction of Liverpool Baltic gets underway, whenever that will be.......

What's the betting that they will install new signals or equipment that will need to be moved when the works for the station get underway? Or perhaps they could spin it that it is all connected.

 

[childwallblues]

No you couldn't, not without demolishing the retaining walls, excavating back into the cutting, and rebuilding the walls. No way would this be worth the effort and expense.

Doubt if the council would allow demolition of vthe bridge which is an original CLC bridge.