*sigh* SPT no longer have any involvement with railways in Scotland. Scotrail are now the sole operators, and the new Saltire livery will therefore be applied to every train and station across the network, even in the SPT/Glasgow area.
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Liveries - Why?
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*sigh* SPT no longer have any involvement with railways in Scotland. Scotrail are now the sole operators, and the new Saltire livery will therefore be applied to every train and station across the network, even in the SPT/Glasgow area.
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Waverley125
Member
i know, but i really liked the SPT livery and want it back!!
90019
Established Member
Well, it's gone yet.
Merseyrail
Member
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- 3 Jul 2009
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- 50
Bring back the old BR blue and grey livery I say. My favourite!!
I think the carmine and cream looks good on some trains (314, 318, 320) but not so good on others (170, 156). Despite the fact that the number of trains that looks good in it IMO is bigger, I think I'll prefer the Saltire livery.
The carmine and cream, if you asked me, looked mostly old fashioned and poorly cared for (probably because they knew that it was about to go, though). Applications on the 334 and 170, for example, were a more modern and vibrant take on the classic scheme, but the 156s in particular were starting to rot away, and the stations were and are in need of a good refresh.
Perhaps what I didn't like about it was the decline; it did look good when it was good if you know what I mean.
Perhaps what I didn't like about it was the decline; it did look good when it was good if you know what I mean.
I can see that this thread started after my comments elsewhere, and there are comments comparing liveries to the likes of Starbucks and Costa - which seems rather odd and totally irrelevant.
The fact is, as long as operators are able to brand their trains then that's what they'll do - and they're perfectly entitled to do. I don't have a problem with them doing what they're able to do.
However, in other countries private operators do the same as here, but operate franchises without the level of branding and corporate identity. They operate almost anonymously, so that there's the general impression to the passenger that they're using a single railway. We have this with London buses (as mentioned) here and I see no reason why the same couldn't apply to trains, or even rural buses.
Of course, things would change in that you'd then expect ticketing to be standardised - but that would only be a good thing for the general public. Most people don't get much choice on local operator, but those that do must hate having so many different tickets - and the hassle when services fail and you're forced to seek alternative travel (look at GC and the problems trying to use their tickets on NXEC).
This would mean a change to the way franchises are awarded and the rules - and wouldn't happen overnight, but it's the closest to renationalising the railway without actually having the Government step in.
(I do like different liveries though - but that still doesn't change my overall view that we should be trying to run a more integrated national railway, even if we keep private operators).
The fact is, as long as operators are able to brand their trains then that's what they'll do - and they're perfectly entitled to do. I don't have a problem with them doing what they're able to do.
However, in other countries private operators do the same as here, but operate franchises without the level of branding and corporate identity. They operate almost anonymously, so that there's the general impression to the passenger that they're using a single railway. We have this with London buses (as mentioned) here and I see no reason why the same couldn't apply to trains, or even rural buses.
Of course, things would change in that you'd then expect ticketing to be standardised - but that would only be a good thing for the general public. Most people don't get much choice on local operator, but those that do must hate having so many different tickets - and the hassle when services fail and you're forced to seek alternative travel (look at GC and the problems trying to use their tickets on NXEC).
This would mean a change to the way franchises are awarded and the rules - and wouldn't happen overnight, but it's the closest to renationalising the railway without actually having the Government step in.
(I do like different liveries though - but that still doesn't change my overall view that we should be trying to run a more integrated national railway, even if we keep private operators).
Blantyre's building still has the orange and black scheme going on. If any station bulding needed a refresh (or a simple paint job), it's Blantyre.
emoaconr
Member
As much as I do like to see many flashy and colourful liveries, it is rather annoying after the franchise renewals, where an operator is landed with stock in umpteen different liveries from umpteen different previous operators, and it takes absolutely years to re-livery every piece of stock a franchise operates. To put the cherry on the cake, there's then national stock reshuffles!
In ATWland when the 175's still had North Western's Barbie livery, there would be trains going through stations (to Manchester Piccadilly), only followed by NR 180's also in Barbie livery; one hell of a confusing situation. It took Arriva 6 years to re-livery the 175's, and they've still got one to go!
Arriva's stock in 2003 was composed of First North Western, North Western Trains, Wales & Borders, Wales & West, Valley Lines and Central Trains units, and to think a fair number of these are still in their former liveries seven years later, is rather outstanding. The stock reshuffles then added yet more liveries to ATW's pool! Its a mad mad process, that costs and wastes hell of a lot of money.
I believe each franchise should have its own livery, however these should be set and unaltered, besides the corporate name. National liveries are good, but I still think there is a place for a regional scheme.
What annoys me far more, is the constant re-branding of individual railway stations. Colour scheme after colour scheme. New signage. New fonts. New layouts. Its absolutely pathetic. I wish Network Rail would pull their finger out on their stations and stop this barbaric mess of chopping and changing what was a consistent system! And like train liveries, when a new franchisee comes along, the whole thing starts again, and its so inconsistent.
In ATWland when the 175's still had North Western's Barbie livery, there would be trains going through stations (to Manchester Piccadilly), only followed by NR 180's also in Barbie livery; one hell of a confusing situation. It took Arriva 6 years to re-livery the 175's, and they've still got one to go!
Arriva's stock in 2003 was composed of First North Western, North Western Trains, Wales & Borders, Wales & West, Valley Lines and Central Trains units, and to think a fair number of these are still in their former liveries seven years later, is rather outstanding. The stock reshuffles then added yet more liveries to ATW's pool! Its a mad mad process, that costs and wastes hell of a lot of money.
I believe each franchise should have its own livery, however these should be set and unaltered, besides the corporate name. National liveries are good, but I still think there is a place for a regional scheme.
What annoys me far more, is the constant re-branding of individual railway stations. Colour scheme after colour scheme. New signage. New fonts. New layouts. Its absolutely pathetic. I wish Network Rail would pull their finger out on their stations and stop this barbaric mess of chopping and changing what was a consistent system! And like train liveries, when a new franchisee comes along, the whole thing starts again, and its so inconsistent.
MCR247
Established Member
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- 7 Nov 2008
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- 10,290
I think each franchise holder should be able to paint/vinyl their trains, and put seat moquettes, but with the FGW refurb, the next Greater Western franchise holder will have flying 'F's on the back of every seat.
Failed Unit
Established Member
I suppose a good example why having operator specific liveries is not a good thing and confusing to passengers is taking a look at Lincoln just after EMT took over.
You could find operating with EMT.
Central, Stagecoach (EMT Local), Stagecoach (SWT Express), Orange (ex-Wessex), Regional Railways, North Western Trains (gold star), Alpha-line, Northern Spirit Trains Pennie Express.
You could find operating with Northern.
Northern (Various), Northern Spirit Blue, Central Trains (from 158's), Alpha-Line, Arriva, North Western Trains, Merseyrail, WYPTE
8 Liveries from EMT
8 Liveries from Northern,
13 Liveries in Total, 3 Liveries which were the same but on trains operated by different companies.
Good for people taking photo's of trains, but it certainly confused people as well!
You could find operating with EMT.
Central, Stagecoach (EMT Local), Stagecoach (SWT Express), Orange (ex-Wessex), Regional Railways, North Western Trains (gold star), Alpha-line, Northern Spirit Trains Pennie Express.
You could find operating with Northern.
Northern (Various), Northern Spirit Blue, Central Trains (from 158's), Alpha-Line, Arriva, North Western Trains, Merseyrail, WYPTE
8 Liveries from EMT
8 Liveries from Northern,
13 Liveries in Total, 3 Liveries which were the same but on trains operated by different companies.
Good for people taking photo's of trains, but it certainly confused people as well!
krus_aragon
Established Member
I wonder why they're allowed to do that: did the regulator not give a flying 'F'?
Okay, I'll get my hat...
I don't think that's how passengers' minds work. I don't think most people know or care (or should care, really) what companies run trains through their station. They have a "ticket to Birmingham" and look out for the train going to Birmingham. If they have an operator-specific ticket, then they will probably have a specific timed train, and will look for the train to Birmingham at 11:28.
Failed Unit
Established Member
As my earlier post also points out, when trains are moved between franchises the colour of the train makes no difference to who operates. Look how many operators had CT liveried trains at the end of thier franchise.
Northern, Arriva Wales, Central, Scotrail and Wessex if I remember correctly!
northwichcat
Veteran Member
But then Doncaster is in SYPTE, so while the 321s are in Metro livery it makes as much sense as Liverpool-Manchester Airport services being in Merseytravel livery (6 Northern branded 142s are sponsored by Merseyrail now, rather than the Merseytravel 142s.)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
and TPE had CT 158s at one point.
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