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Linking adjacent stations

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AlexSJW

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In London there a number of station that needed link with pedestrian tunnels to give superior interchange. Kilburn High Rd on the Overground and Kilburn park on the Underground, 235 metres apart, would benefit from a linking pedestrian tunnel. As would Swiss Cottage on the Underground and South Hampstead on the Overground. Outside of London, Lime St mainline and Liverpool Central on the Merseyrail Metro need a linking tunnel.

What others could benefit by a linking tunnel or walkway?
 
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VT 390

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In London there a number of station that needed link with pedestrian tunnels to give superior interchange. Kilburn High Rd on the Overground and Kilburn park on the Underground, 235 metres apart, would benefit from a linking pedestrian tunnel. As would Swiss Cottage on the Underground and South Hampstead on the Overground.
What would be the benefit of linking Kilburn High Road and Kilburn Park when there is direct interchange between the Lioness line (Overground) and Bakerloo line (Underground) the the next stop Queens Park?
If changing from the Lioness line to Jubilee line and you don't want to leave the station you could just make 2 cross platform interchanges at Queens Park and Baker Street.
What others could benefit by a linking tunnel or walkway?
I would find a Birmingham New Street to Moor Street dedicated connection very useful as the alternative rail option of changing at Smethwick Galton Bridge or tram to Jewellery Quarter both add significant time and additional cost to the journey. But I'm not sure its realistic to expect such a link to be built.
 

Paul AC

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Deansgate and Manchester Oxford Road should be linked (they are only 28 chains / 616 yards / 563 metres / 0.35 mile apart) by a covered walkway, then the former can be closed, to improve Castlefield corridor reliability. Preferably at or near track level, so the benefit of the footbridge linking Deansgate station and Deansgate-Castlefield tram stop isn't lost.
 

MarkyT

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I would find a Birmingham New Street to Moor Street dedicated connection very useful as the alternative rail option of changing at Smethwick Galton Bridge or tram to Jewellery Quarter both add significant time and additional cost to the journey. But I'm not sure its realistic to expect such a link to be built.
The St Martin's Queensway tunnel is the shortest route, largely straight and level, but generally awful: narrow, poorly lit, neglected, frequented by beggars, drug users, etc, so likely rarely patrolled.

Far be it from me to suggest that owner Hammerson likes to keep it that way to encourage people changing trains to get lost in their shopping centres above instead!

I'd like to see traffic removed, except electric buses, with a signalled single lane remaining, leaving space for a significantly widened pedestrian path alongside, with a segregating wall throughout, and ideally equipped with a moving walkway for at least part of the length. If they made it wide enough down there, Hammerson might even squeeze in some high-revenue coffee and travel goods shops to extract a levy on interchanging passengers at that level instead of trying to force them upstairs, which many can't manage anyway.

A 'One Station' project linking Birmingham's main line terminals needs to focus clearly on making that interchange as quick and pleasant as possible, because that's what the vast majority of passengers making regular routine journeys want, and is the fundamental measure of an effective interchange. By contrast, shopping centre managers live in an alternative reality where everyone has hours to kill transfering across major cities, taking lunch, buying some clothes, having some experiences en route before embarking on the transcontinental express to the grand tour. Yes life's a journey, but the commute's a grind, and the last thing anyone wants is to be diverted an extra few hundred metres round past a lot of gaudy storefronts when you just want to get your train home and definitely haven't any spare cash in your pocket.
 
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cle

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We don't have too many precedents of the same line having two stations in a complex (eg Chatelet + Les Halles) - some thoughts lean to that - for example, connection from Marylebone underground to get to the SSL. I think would improve its usefulness a lot. The walk would be similar to today but the experience might see it feel more connected. The Bakerloo has tons of capacity so more should be done with the NR as a whole, tangent. Cannon St another.

Euston and Euston Square should have been done the minute they moved the taxis from that dungeon, regardless of HS2. Would be on the tube map and help with KXSP relief / online journey planning a lot. Uesful E/W for Northern line north London people too - which isn't perfect right now.

New Cross and New Cross Gate - JLE style - a Bakerloo E/W aligned station could connect these underground, including a mezzanine level for quicker passage. Could have "first train to ELL" benefits, direct more people to the NX starters.
 

MarkyT

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We don't have too many precedents of the same line having two stations in a complex (eg Chatelet + Les Halles) - some thoughts lean to that - for example, connection from Marylebone underground to get to the SSL. I think would improve its usefulness a lot. The walk would be similar to today but the experience might see it feel more connected. The Bakerloo has tons of capacity so more should be done with the NR as a whole, tangent. Cannon St another.
It's a fairly short walk to Baker St or Edgware Rd. Marylebone already has its own Bakerloo station, which most west end bound travellers would likely use. For the City I expect most take Bakerloo, then change onto Central at Oxford Circus. For Docklands, I'd go one stop on Bakerloo then cross-platform to Jubilee. Changing to the Elizabeth Line is a pain however, as the Bakerloo doesn't connect with it east of Paddington. Proposed routing of some (not via Harrow) Chiltern trains to OOC would help here. I can't see numbers stacking up for an expensive new subteranean link at Marylebone. Perhaps an additional short TfL subway just under the road with a stairwell on the west side of Baker Street could help, and some walkway widening and other pedestrian improvements along Melrose Street /Dorset Square.
Euston and Euston Square should have been done the minute they moved the taxis from that dungeon, regardless of HS2. Would be on the tube map and help with KXSP relief / online journey planning a lot. Uesful E/W for Northern line north London people too - which isn't perfect right now.
A leaked 2024 TfL report stated Euston Square would not comply with modern fire regulations, with only one egress route at the west end. No surprise there, and while that's allowed under 'grandfather rights', it can't be open-ended. Mitigations would be expected in the longer term, especially in a scenario of expected rising passenger numbers from a future major HS terminal just over the road. So it may be that TfL decides they have to put in an eastern access for emergencies, and once they go to the trouble of excavating shafts and stair-wells they might as well make it a second full public entrance at the same time. That leaves the pedestrian subway tunnel beneath Euston Road, which could be built in stages. The initial section could be built by TfL just under the road to new stairs/escalators/lifts immediately on the other side. When the mainline station is developed further in future, the tunnel/trench could be extended by others at that level into the new concourse area for a fully integrated undercover route.
 
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The Planner

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Deansgate and Manchester Oxford Road should be linked (they are only 28 chains / 616 yards / 563 metres / 0.35 mile apart) by a covered walkway, then the former can be closed, to improve Castlefield corridor reliability. Preferably at or near track level, so the benefit of the footbridge linking Deansgate station and Deansgate-Castlefield tram stop isn't lost.
That is a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
 

cle

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It's a fairly short walk to Baker St or Edgware Rd. Marylebone already has its own Bakerloo station, which most west end bound travellers would likely use. For the City I expect most take Bakerloo, then change onto Central at Oxford Circus. For Docklands, I'd go one stop on Bakerloo then cross-platform to Jubilee. Changing to the Elizabeth Line is a pain however, as the Bakerloo doesn't connect with it east of Paddington. Proposed routing of some (not via Harrow) Chiltern trains to OOC would help here. I can't see numbers stacking up for an expensive new subteranean link at Marylebone. Perhaps an additional short TfL subway just under the road with a stairwell on the west side of Baker Street could help, and some walkway widening and other pedestrian improvements along Melrose Street /Dorset Square.
I'm very familiar with it. Two tubes off a train is a lot for most people, daily. Direct trains to KXSP / Farringdon / Moorgate would be very useful.

I do agree that the OOC trains would be useful - it's a shame they converge on the same two tracks after West Ruislip. Fundamentally the Chiltern network isn't that populous. Thank God for Bicester... the Oxford/Cowley thing might help, and Parkway is growing. High Wycombe has had a lot of development, but the network really needs more to use up the capacity better. Trains are incredibly short still, for London.
 

VT 390

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The St Martin's Queensway tunnel is the shortest route, largely straight and level, but generally awful: narrow, poorly lit, neglected, frequented by beggars, drug users, etc, so likely rarely patrolled.
Definitely agree the tunnel is awful for pedestrian usage. Not only that but you have to cross 2 relatively awkward roads with the road outside Moor Street having 2 separate crossings, this would not be easy to solve without pedestrianisation of the area, but they should at least have greater pedestrian priority at the crossings.
I make this change every so often but because of the state of the tunnel I usually change at Smethwick Galton Bridge or get the tram to Jewellery Quarter despite the extra time and cost as I find the alternative shopping centre route to stressful to use.
 

Mozd

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The three West Hampsteads could be better connected together. It's better than it was, but you still need to use relative narrow pavements and cross roads
 

birchesgreen

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I would find a Birmingham New Street to Moor Street dedicated connection very useful as the alternative rail option of changing at Smethwick Galton Bridge or tram to Jewellery Quarter both add significant time and additional cost to the journey. But I'm not sure its realistic to expect such a link to be built.
A dangleway would be cool, it could go over the Selfridges building.
 

dk1

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I was amazed how close Dorking Main and Dorking Deepdene were last week and that it was a mere 3 minute walk between the two.
 

AlexSJW

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It's a fairly short walk to Baker St or Edgware Rd. Marylebone already has its own Bakerloo station
An underground pedestrian tunnel between Marylebone High Level and Baker St looks essential. It would improve connections enormously: Jubilee Line, Met Lines, inc Hammersmith and City and Circle. It is such an obvious thing to do.
I was amazed how close Dorking Main and Dorking Deepdene were last week and that it was a mere 3 minute walk between the two.
I cannot see why that small town has two stations on the same line.

Some stations can be merged, Wigan Wallgate and Wigan North Western come to mind. Rice Lane in Liverpool can be moved a few hundred yards down the track to merge with Walton station. Both stations are on different metro lines, so would make an excellent interchange.
 
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VT 390

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An underground pedestrian tunnel between Marylebone High Level and Baker St looks essential. It would improve connections enormously: Jubilee Line, Met Lines, inc Hammersmith and City and Circle. It is such an obvious thing to do.
Would this really be essential as it would not really improve journey times or reduce the amount of overall walking required?
For the Jubilee line it is already cross platform at Baker Street from the Bakerloo line.
The Metropolitan, Circle and Hammersmith & City it is really quite a short walk/escalator route at Baker Street, especially for the Metropolitan and passengers from the Aylesbury via Amersham route would have easier connections for these lines using Harrow-on-the-Hill.
 

dk1

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Some stations can be merged, Wigan Wallgate and Wigan North Western come to mind. Rice Lane in Liverpool can be moved a few hundred yards down the track to merge with Walton station. Both stations are on different metro lines, so would make an excellent interchange.
The Mersey area did a good job consolidating with Liverpool South Parkway.
 

VT 390

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Some stations can be merged, Wigan Wallgate and Wigan North Western come to mind.
I agree, if possible connecting the Wigan stations would be useful and make journeys easier.

Rice Lane in Liverpool can be moved a few hundred yards down the track to merge with Walton station. Both stations are on different metro lines, so would make an excellent interchange.

Kirkdale already acts as an interchange for the Headbolt Lane/Ormskirk lines so it would be a high cost for only a very small decrease in journey time.
 

AlexSJW

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The Mersey area did a good job consolidating with Liverpool South Parkway.
Talking of the Mersey area, there has been talk of reintroducing the Burscough curves for decades, but more recently, which would take Merseyrail battery trains from Ormskirk to Southport, with Southport hit from two directions by Merseyrail. But merging the two stations, in such a small town as Burscough is, on two different lines, Ormskirk-Preston and Southport-Wigan, would be very difficult.
 

Magdalia

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The three West Hampsteads could be better connected together. It's better than it was, but you still need to use relative narrow pavements and cross roads
I do the walk between the Thameslink and Mildmay stations at West Hampstead. I don't see any way of connecting them together that would avoid going out onto West End Road. The connection is much better since the improvements at both stations that have been implemented in recent years.

I cannot see why that small town has two stations on the same line.
Dorking and Dorking Deepdene are not on the same line, though Dorking Deepdene is on the same line as Dorking West.

Dorking West used to be called Dorking Town and is the best located for the town centre.


An underground pedestrian tunnel between Marylebone High Level and Baker St looks essential.
It isn't essential, I've walked between them at street level many times, and lived to tell the tale.

In London there a number of station that needed link with pedestrian tunnels to give superior interchange.

Hackney Downs and Hackney Central are a good example of where this has been done.
 

Recessio

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Euston and Euston Square should have been done the minute they moved the taxis from that dungeon, regardless of HS2. Would be on the tube map and help with KXSP relief / online journey planning a lot. Uesful E/W for Northern line north London people too - which isn't perfect right now.

A leaked 2024 TfL report stated Euston Square would not comply with modern fire regulations, with only one egress route at the west end. No surprise there, and while that's allowed under 'grandfather rights', it can't be open-ended. Mitigations would be expected in the longer term, especially in a scenario of expected rising passenger numbers from a future major HS terminal just over the road. So it may be that TfL decides they have to put in an eastern access for emergencies, and once they go to the trouble of excavating shafts and stair-wells they might as well make it a second full public entrance at the same time. That leaves the pedestrian subway tunnel beneath Euston Road, which could be built in stages. The initial section could be built by TfL just under the road to new stairs/escalators/lifts immediately on the other side. When the mainline station is developed further in future, the tunnel/trench could be extended by others at that level into the new concourse area for a fully integrated undercover route.
I remember seeing plans to have an entrance to at least Euston Square (and possibly jointly to Euston too?) at the short section of Gordon Street north of Gower Place/Endsleigh Gardens and south of Euston Road. Most of Gordon Street is now going to be pedestrianised by University College London, who own I believe all but one of the buildings on Gordon Street. It would also be good to give "local" users who don't need to interchange with National Rail services at Euston a seperate entrance and exit to London Underground from the one in the main station.

However, if memory serves, this entrance was meant to be part of the HS2 rebuild but I think got canned due to cost. I presume it's been passed on to Crossrail 2 instead?
 

AlexSJW

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If changing from the Lioness line to Jubilee line and you don't want to leave the station you could just make 2 cross platform interchanges at Queens Park and Baker Street.
That is making two changes. A pedestrian tunnel between Swiss Cottage and South Hampstead makes matters much easier, renaming both stations Swiss Cottage. Kenton and Northwick Park are also candidates for a pedestrian tunnel being three hundred yards apart. The two stations could be merged if both were moved along the tracks of each.
 

Shaw S Hunter

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Some stations can be merged, Wigan Wallgate and Wigan North Western come to mind.
No real need, the time needed to get from one to the other is less than that needed for interchange wholly within a good number of large stations. Note that not only are the two at different levels but are also somewhat surrounded by development meaning that a full-blown merger would be both difficult and expensive. They are also not especially visible from one to the other and the listed status of Wallgate's frontage means that making it more visible would likely come up against planning restrictions. Probably best left alone.
 
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A direct Baker Street to Marylebone connection could offer some benefits, especially if it could be combined with a scheme that provides step-free access to all platforms at Baker Street. At present, if you arrive at Marylebone and can't use steps, your only option is the bus!
However, any sub-surface solution would be ridiculously expensive, added to the complexity of altering the listed elements of Baker Street station itself.

The walk isn't that bad except when it's tipping down with rain. However I think that the crossing of Gloucester Place is an accident waiting to happen. It's busy with north-south traffic and you have to wait quite a long time for the pedestrian phase if you don't time it just right.
I regularly see people dodging traffic against the lights because they're rushing for a train, and it doesn't help that many cyclists also come shooting through the intersection on red.

Crossing Baker Street itself isn't so bad as the time between pedestrian phases is much shorter.
 

WideRanger

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That is making two changes. A pedestrian tunnel between Swiss Cottage and South Hampstead makes matters much easier, renaming both stations Swiss Cottage. Kenton and Northwick Park are also candidates for a pedestrian tunnel being three hundred yards apart. The two stations could be merged if both were moved along the tracks of each.
I have seen many tunnels linking stations around the world. Apart from where they are trivially short, they only work where either there is large natural footfall between the 2 stations across all periods of the day, or there is sufficient demand for the tunnels to incorporate access to businesses or shopping (so are in a business district), or preferably both. This happens a lot in Japan, and many people really welcome it, especially when the weather outside is unpleasant. However, if you don't have one (ore preferably both) of these conditions, such tunnels quickly become horrible and feel dangerous, and people avoid using them. The longer the tunnel, the more critical this is.

I can't see how any of the examples you give would generate the level of use to feel safe in the long term. The only exception would be if any tunnel were part of a wholesale rebuilding of the area.

On the idea to move Northwick Park and Kenton in order to merge them, I suspect the number of people who would benefit - those who naturally would change between the two stations - would be relatively small. But the number of people who would lose - because the stations moving further away from the most important parts of the community they serve, including Northwick Park hospital in both cases - would be relatively large.
 

VT 390

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That is making two changes. A pedestrian tunnel between Swiss Cottage and South Hampstead makes matters much easier, renaming both stations Swiss Cottage. Kenton and Northwick Park are also candidates for a pedestrian tunnel being three hundred yards apart. The two stations could be merged if both were moved along the tracks of each.
It is 2 very easy changes though with both being cross platform. At Queens Park it would literally take a few steps, at Baker Street the cross platform is slightly further but still very easy. The total walking time and distance would still be far less using the existing cross platform interchange.
It would also only really benefit passengers on the Watford DC/Lioness line from Headstone Lane northwards as from Harrow & Wealdstone south there is direct Bakerloo line at the same frequency or greater than the Lioness line (allowing for just a single change at Baker Street).
 

edwin_m

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Deansgate and Manchester Oxford Road should be linked (they are only 28 chains / 616 yards / 563 metres / 0.35 mile apart) by a covered walkway, then the former can be closed, to improve Castlefield corridor reliability. Preferably at or near track level, so the benefit of the footbridge linking Deansgate station and Deansgate-Castlefield tram stop isn't lost.
At least one abandoned version of the Oxford Road remodelling had a second entrance/exit at the western end, which was probably close enough to Deansgate to consider closing it.

A new subway in an urban environment is extremely expensive - there would inevitably be many utilities in the way and it would need ramps or lifts each end unless the station it connected to was already accessible and at a suitable depth underground.
 

Metrider

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Canary Wharf (Elizabeth Line) and Poplar is a no-brainer. The distance is very short as the crow flies, and it would allow people on the Elizabeth Line to change to the DLR for City Airport. At the moment you have to walk quite a long way round and cross a busy road, but I believe there is something in the works to renovate the area between these stations that includes a pedestrian link.

I'd also welcome some links between North Ealing on the Piccadilly Line and Ealing Broadway and/or West Acton. At least give us an out of station interchange, please TfL!
 

MarkyT

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I have seen many tunnels linking stations around the world. Apart from where they are trivially short, they only work where either there is large natural footfall between the 2 stations across all periods of the day, or there is sufficient demand for the tunnels to incorporate access to businesses or shopping (so are in a business district), or preferably both. This happens a lot in Japan, and many people really welcome it, especially when the weather outside is unpleasant. However, if you don't have one (ore preferably both) of these conditions, such tunnels quickly become horrible and feel dangerous, and people avoid using them. The longer the tunnel, the more critical this is.
Fully agree. There's also a fashion in western planning for getting rid of pedestrian subways, often for similar reasons of perceived security. I agree many UK examples under 1960s road intersections are horrible (and their users have no choice), but there are techniques to make a subway better: more width, better materials, lighting, security, etc. Adjacent development designed so activity overlooks portals. Activity located inside the underpass if possible or at the portal mouth - coffee kiosks etc.
I can't see how any of the examples you give would generate the level of use to feel safe in the long term. The only exception would be if any tunnel were part of a wholesale rebuilding of the area.

On the idea to move Northwick Park and Kenton in order to merge them, I suspect the number of people who would benefit - those who naturally would change between the two stations - would be relatively small. But the number of people who would lose - because the stations moving further away from the most important parts of the community they serve, including Northwick Park hospital in both cases - would be relatively large.
In general, longstanding station locations become embedded in urban infrastructure and local life, often with clusters of businesses and services around them: minicab offices, bus stops, laundromats, cafes, pubs, convenience stores, etc. Moving an established station entrance location any significant distance can be particularly inconvenient and may drive away local custom and trigger public opposition. Would there be sufficient new business available from a new interchange to offset that, commercially and reputationally, and how might the needs of those put off be met in other ways?
 

cle

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Canary Wharf (Elizabeth Line) and Poplar is a no-brainer. The distance is very short as the crow flies, and it would allow people on the Elizabeth Line to change to the DLR for City Airport. At the moment you have to walk quite a long way round and cross a busy road, but I believe there is something in the works to renovate the area between these stations that includes a pedestrian link.
This is actually a good one. What is planned for the site between them? West India Quay is obviously much easier but doesn't offer LCY.

I'm coming to the view of closing City Airport though - and building a ton more housing in what would be quite a nice spot to live - and that area has become very dense with developments. Well-connected too. Enough demand for a EL station without the Airport - not sure.
 

HSTEd

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That is a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
There is, after all, no kill like overkill.

But I do think it is probably a bit much.
But then again, I think Manchester's central stations do need a major overhaul/reconstruction to function as a coherent system.
 

MarkyT

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Definitely agree the tunnel is awful for pedestrian usage. Not only that but you have to cross 2 relatively awkward roads with the road outside Moor Street having 2 separate crossings, this would not be easy to solve without pedestrianisation of the area, but they should at least have greater pedestrian priority at the crossings.
I wonder if the road carriageway and walkway might swap places, so travellers would only have to cross Moor St Queensway in front of the station, which I understand is to be improved as the major pedestrian gateway to the city centre for the Curzon St related developments.
A dangleway would be cool, it could go over the Selfridges building.
Difficult to beat the walking time with any kind of vehicle solution.

This photo suggests pedestrian use of the tunnel may be significant. Note also the gent struggling up the stairs with luggage at top right. With the new access ramps at the Moor St end, that staircase is redundant now, so might be removed making some space for a low-level walkway on that side:

A recent Tik Tok video on the subject pulls no punches:
 
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