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Line Suicides

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HST Power

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A few nights ago, I was stuck at Finsbury Park on my way home due to a person under a train. I'm sure there are many people on here who've expierenced the same thing.

I'm curious to know what the railway policy is for such incidents. In my case, we merely waited it out and then continued on our way, but what do the companies have to do (in my case it was FCC) when dealing with it? Are there certain regulations that have to be followed with regards to the holding of other trains and line activity surronding the station?
 
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MadCommuter

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A few nights ago, I was stuck at Finsbury Park on my way home due to a person under a train. I'm sure there are many people on here who've expierenced the same thing.

I'm curious to know what the railway policy is for such incidents. In my case, we merely waited it out and then continued on our way, but what do the companies have to do (in my case it was FCC) when dealing with it? Are there certain regulations that have to be followed with regards to the holding of other trains and line activity surronding the station?

The northbound Caledonian sleepers again have delays of between 40 and 200 mins this morning for the same reason.

 

Clip

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Basically everything stops as you need to get the BTP and ambulance down there and make sure they pick up all the bits.

Depending on circumstances it may be necessary for the TOC to find coaches to get people round stations but overall its about a 2 delay tops depending on where it happened.
 

amcluesent

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I was told that BTP are working to a 2 hour window to get everything sorted and make the necessary checks if it was a crime rather than suicide. If only roads policing worked to the same timetable instead of casually closing roads for hours/days because every RTC is now treated as a crime scene.

I recall being denied delay/repay for a 2+ hour delay on Xmas eve as suicides aren't covered. :(
 

tempests1

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Basically everything stops as you need to get the BTP and ambulance down there and make sure they pick up all the bits.

Depending on circumstances it may be necessary for the TOC to find coaches to get people round stations but overall its about a 2 delay tops depending on where it happened.

From a signallers point of view - They will probably receive an Emergency call from the driver via the CSR if available. They need to find out more details such as the location & affected lines. They will then attempt to stop all trains in/heading towards the affected area by sending CSR Train Stop messages. At some stage they will contact the affected drivers and tell them the reason for the train stop message/change of aspect. They would replace the route on a NX Panel & throw the levers back in the frame in a lever frame box. If another signal box is involved they will send obstruction danger (six bells) to the other boxes in an absolute block area, and send the emergency alarm to a TCB/other method signalbox. Where possible they will stop the trains in platforms as they may be stopped for some time. They will then ring for an ambulance as of course the person could still be alive.

If the line(s) are electrified they will arrange for an Emergency Isolation with the ECR who will give a unique reference number that needs to be quoted if the isolation is been given up. If the signaller goes off duty they inform the ECR that they are handing the permit over the ECR will speak to the relieving signaller to ensure that they have a full and complete understanding. The signaller will report the matter to the NWR Route Control who will arrange for any diversions by speaking to the neccessary signalboxes.

They then speak to the TOC Control who will arrange for alternative transport, check route knowledge of driver/guards on diverted services, will arrange for a manager to attend the site to look after the driver (chain of care) & a whole raft of other things. They will send pager messages out to the staff who can then act in a customer care capacity with the ensuing delays.

The MOM will be called out & will probably act as the Rail Incident Officer The signaller tends to patch the driver through to BTP to report what happened the driver will then say if the saw anything Suspicious. Sometimes Route Control reports the matter to BTP & arranges for the driver to be interviewed. If unlucky the local police turn up as BTP may be some distance away. I remember one time the locals turned up & straight away treated it as a scene of crime. Which meant they were preventing the MOM getting onto the tracks. NWR had to then speak to the Police Control. In some cases the locals have headed straight down onto the track without checking the lines were blocked/isolated.

The locomotive/unit will also have to be examined & tested in regards the Brakes,Speedo,Horn & headlight. The train cannot be cleaned until the Police have given permission.

NWR Control will call a doctor to attend site to pronounce the death.

NWR Control will then contact the on call undertakers usually the Co-Op, to arrange for the removal of the body/remains. The body cannot be moved or covered until the Police give permission. The Police & MOM usually have to comb the area looking for body parts as obviously they can be found some considerable distance from the initial impact. Sometimes when there is an adjacant line that is not affected they may want to run a train past the affected area, the body is covered and not too visible to the passengers but they would have to speak to the driver to see if they would be happy to drive past the body.

As a previous poster stated they ideally want to have the line fully reopened within two hours, otherwise there has to be an Investigation by NWR & the TOC.

The RSSB Rule Book Module that covers this is M5 Managing Accidents Section 4 Bodies on the Line.
 
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HST Power

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Thank you very much tempests for your long and detailed replied, and the same to everyone else who posted back. :)
 

GB

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I was told that BTP are working to a 2 hour window to get everything sorted and make the necessary checks if it was a crime rather than suicide. If only roads policing worked to the same timetable instead of casually closing roads for hours/days because every RTC is now treated as a crime scene.

I recall being denied delay/repay for a 2+ hour delay on Xmas eve as suicides aren't covered. :(

With respect, I'm sure if you or your familiy were victims of a fatal road traffic collision you would wan't the investigations to be as thorough as possible rather than quickly opening up the road and potentially missing something.

For investigative purposes a fatal road traffic collision and a railway suicide do not compare.
 

ChrisCooper

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Is power always isolated, even on overhead electrified routes? I was on a train that hit someone a few years ago and I'm pretty certain the power did not go off. It was an 87 hauled VWC service and I was stood for quite some time at the window behind the loco and could hear the transformer humming, and being the middle of winter I think we'd have noticed being stood for nearly 2 hours with the heating off. This was 2003 I think though, so rules might have changed.

In our circumstance we hit someone at Prestbury, between Macclesfield and Stockport, stopping with the DVT just in the tunnel after the station. I didn't actually see anyone around the loco (87019) or train, although I wasn't watching all the time, but there were lots of people on the track at the station. It was rougly 2 hours before we moved again, having had a relief driver sent out on a Southbound VXC service. The original driver was taken off by police at Stockport and we carried on to Manchester Picadilly where having terminated the train then went to the depot.
 

tempests1

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Is power always isolated, even on overhead electrified routes? I was on a train that hit someone a few years ago and I'm pretty certain the power did not go off. It was an 87 hauled VWC service and I was stood for quite some time at the window behind the loco and could hear the transformer humming, and being the middle of winter I think we'd have noticed being stood for nearly 2 hours with the heating off. This was 2003 I think though, so rules might have changed.

In our circumstance we hit someone at Prestbury, between Macclesfield and Stockport, stopping with the DVT just in the tunnel after the station. I didn't actually see anyone around the loco (87019) or train, although I wasn't watching all the time, but there were lots of people on the track at the station. It was rougly 2 hours before we moved again, having had a relief driver sent out on a Southbound VXC service. The original driver was taken off by police at Stockport and we carried on to Manchester Picadilly where having terminated the train then went to the depot.

Good question the Rule Book states the following under the list of signaller's first actions 'arrange for an emergency isolation of the traction current, if neccessary'. When I posted earlier it was based on a Third rail DC Line. Obviously with OLE it is well away from the actual ground level so in most cases it would not be neccessary to Isolate. With third rail I was say it's a given as obviously you will have a lot of non railway personnel about i.e doctor, undertakers, etc etc who could quite easily be juiced, & plus the actual person could be alive they survived the initial impact but died after coming into contact with the third rail.
 

66526

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With respect, I'm sure if you or your familiy were victims of a fatal road traffic collision you would wan't the investigations to be as thorough as possible rather than quickly opening up the road and potentially missing something.

For investigative purposes a fatal road traffic collision and a railway suicide do not compare.

You beat me to it mate! It's all well and good sat in your car in a traffic jam moaning because you're going to be late for work but there is at least one family out there who I can guarentee is having a much rougher time! I'm sure the relatives have got a bucketful of sympathy for people sat in the queue behind moaning...
 

OxtedL

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At the moment there are a couple of 377s about with slightly different and more fluorescent front, with numbers in a different font. Now obviously I have no clue why this is, it could be anything, but you do have to wonder if they were involved in something... (I think I saw 126 and 128 like this yesterday, but can't really comment)
 

tempests1

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You beat me to it mate! It's all well and good sat in your car in a traffic jam moaning because you're going to be late for work but there is at least one family out there who I can guarentee is having a much rougher time! I'm sure the relatives have got a bucketful of sympathy for people sat in the queue behind moaning...

I agree someone who has chosen to end their life is completely different than the person who has died as the result of an accident
 
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LE Greys

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With respect, I'm sure if you or your familiy were victims of a fatal road traffic collision you would wan't the investigations to be as thorough as possible rather than quickly opening up the road and potentially missing something.

For investigative purposes a fatal road traffic collision and a railway suicide do not compare.

I presume they also want to make sure there's not more to it than there appears to be. I've heard of at least one murder where the murderer placed the body over a railway line to make it look like suicide - not to mention some cases where people have been pushed off platforms.
 

66526

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Although I can see what you mean with a one under, there is a chance that it might not have been suicide. In this case it's really only the driver who can give a view as to which one it was as they will usually be the only witness (unless there's cctv or other witnesses in the vicinity).
 

jopsuk

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Which is of course one of the things that forward-facing CCTV on many trains (all new ones I think, plus quite a lot retrofitted) is installed for.
 
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Unless the driver can confrimed the deceased stepped in front of the train with nobody else involved then it is treated as a scene of crime until proved otherwise.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Which is of course one of the things that forward-facing CCTV on many trains (all new ones I think, plus quite a lot retrofitted) is installed for.

This is also used by some bus companies on the newer bus fleets in case the vehicle is in an accident and this, I am led to believe, is now admissable evidence in court cases .
 

ChrisCooper

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This is also used by some bus companies on the newer bus fleets in case the vehicle is in an accident and this, I am led to believe, is now admissable evidence in court cases .

Yes it is, and is becoming very popular with bus companies to get them off in cases where other road users claim the bus was at fault and the CCTV proves otherwise. In other cases it doesn't even get to court as the other parties attitude changes very suddenly as soon as CCTV evidance is mentioned.
 

ungreat

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Having had one under on friday just gone I can assure all its not a nice thing for anyone involved.
 
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