Limit app driver numbers 'to protect black cabs' in London

[deltic]

BBC is reporting a London Assembly report that wants to encourage more taxis and reduce the number of minicabs.

London has too many private hire vehicles doing too few trips, adding to congestion and pushing down driver pay, politicians have said.

The London Assembly's transport committee has added at the same time the number of black cab drivers has fallen by a third in 10 years.

Elly Baker, the Labour Assembly Member who chairs the group, said the advent of taxi apps had led to "extreme competition for fares" so required radical intervention by the government and Transport for London (TfL).

If Assembly members really want to increase the number of black cabs then they need to replace the outdated Knowledge with a much simpler test that recogonises the existence of Sat Navs. Why would anyone spend 2-3 years learning the knowledge when in a few more years we could be seeing driverless taxis operating in central London. Could also require App based ride companies to offer a far higher proportion of accessible vehicles.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Could also require App based ride companies to offer a far higher proportion of accessible vehicles.

While because of how the apps work it wouldn't require all of them to be accessible, a rule that app operators need to evidence that if an accessible taxi is requested, on average (so ignoring extreme cases where only one vehicle was anywhere nearby, say) it is provided no slower than a non-accessible one, doesn't sound unreasonable.

Aside from that I see no reason to protect the Hackney carriage trade as such. And there's overlap - there are Hackney carriage apps like FreeNow.

I'd also like to see more regulation of private hire vehicles in terms of quality, to be honest. No issue with them following satnav (which pops up automatically on the Uber software) but London does seem, oddly, to do far less regulation of them than other cities.

 

[renegademaster]

accessible taxi is requested, on average (so ignoring extreme cases where only one vehicle was anywhere nearby, say) it is provided no slower than a non-accessible one, doesn't sound unreasonable.

The only way Uber would be able to achieve that is by putting up the price on the accessible rides so drivers take up the rides quicker.


TfL could force all new PHL to be accessible or at least a proportion of them to be so

 

[edwin_m]

Does London really need more black cabs?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Does London really need more black cabs?

No.

It probably does need fewer minicabs though.

 

[greyman42]

Surely supply and demand will dictate the amount of black cabs needed?

 

[Bald Rick]

The number of black cabs in London has been steadily falling, and the age profile of their drivers is remarkable - well over half are over 55, with one hardy soul still registered as a driver aged over 90! It is reasonable to assume the number of black cabs on London‘s roads will continue to fall.

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/tph-demographic-stats-dec-2024.pdf

(contents are data tables, and not easily quotable, sorry).

 

[greyman42]

The number of black cabs in London has been steadily falling, and the age profile of their drivers is remarkable - well over half are over 55, with one hardy soul still registered as a driver aged over 90! It is reasonable to assume the number of black cabs on London‘s roads will continue to fall.

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/tph-demographic-stats-dec-2024.pdf

(contents are data tables, and not easily quotable, sorry).

I know the gentleman who is over 90 but he is no longer driving his cab as he was refused insurance.

 

[styles]

I think the main issue really is how long it takes and how much it costs to do The Knowledge. Practicing those routes basically requires a lot of spare time hiking round London with routes in front of you memorising them. It takes most candidates 3-4 years. Whereas I could drive with Uber in as long as it takes to get a DBS back.

There's simply far more people out there who need to earn money yesterday than there are those able to commit the time and financial investment in getting a London taxi licence. The taxi licence is probably going to earn more than the PHV licence in the long run but it isn't something which can be done quickly.

Some of the legislation does need sorting out though. The number of Wolverhampton PHV plates on the road is through the roof.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd agree with the suggestion that the Knowledge really isn't needed any more. A replacement rule could be that you either use a TfL approved satnav with traffic for all journeys* OR you have the Knowledge, your choice.

* Doesn't mean they'd have to approve just a specific one - Waze and Google/Apple Maps are perfectly suitable. You just probably wouldn't want people using an old Tomtom with out of date maps and no traffic data.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Some of the legislation does need sorting out though. The number of Wolverhampton PHV plates on the road is through the roof.

That was another genius move by the Tories in 2015 to 'liberalise' the taxi market by letting PHV drivers apply anywhere for a licence. Weirdly, PHV drivers flock to the city which charges the lowest fees and has the fewest conditions to meet.

I don't know what it is like in London but a third of PHVs in Manchester are licenced in Wolverhampton.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That was another genius move by the Tories in 2015 to 'liberalise' the taxi market by letting PHV drivers apply anywhere for a licence. Weirdly, PHV drivers flock to the city which charges the lowest fees and has the fewest conditions to meet.

I don't know what it is like in London but a third of PHVs in Manchester are licenced in Wolverhampton.

The nature of the market now suggests that a national licensing scheme for PHVs would make more sense.

 

[Djgr]

The nature of the market now suggests that a national licensing scheme for PHVs would make more sense.

Pretty sure that something like this is already on the government "to do" list