Leyland National Bus (London two door version) Passenger Safety

[Bungle73]

Hi. Reading about the bus crash in London the other day brought back memories of the time I myself, as a schoolboy, was a passenger on a bus that was involved in a collision in London back in the '80s. It was a P3 of a bus type my research tells me was Leyland National. It was a head on crash with a van/lorry (can't recall which), and I remember the driver of that vehicle had his windscreen smashed and had to be taken to hospital. The seat I was sitting in was the seat directly behind the central exit doors (on the same side). Now right in front of this seat was a (what I always assumed to be) glass panel. On impact I was thrown forward and hit my head on this panel, although not hard enough to cause any injury (it didn't even hurt much iirc). I didn't think much about it at the time, but thinking about it lately I'm thinking that I'm pretty lucky it wasn't a more severe impact otherwise I might have gone through it. So what's this business of having a glass panel right in front of a passenger seat? Is this something that wasn't considered when these buses were designed, or is my concern unfounded?

The funny thing is, when I finally left the scene and walked home (I was only a few stops from getting off) I didn't mention a thing about it to my parents, as technically I shouldn't have even been on it....

 

[pdeaves]

I don't know the design details. However, the panel may have been a special glass designed not to break in incidents such as yours. Bullet proof or something?

 

[Bungle73]

I don't know the design details. However, the panel may have been a special glass designed not to break in incidents such as yours. Bullet proof or something?

Maybe. But being thrown hard against what would be a solid wall right in front of you doesn't sound like much fun either. Maybe the thinking is that a London bus never gets up to that high a speed. I'm sure not sure of the speed in the crash I was involved in, but it was probably towards the slower side, because it happened on a bend. A blind bend as it happens, hence the reason for the crash.

 

[TwinTurbostar]

So what's this business of having a glass panel right in front of a passenger seat? Is this something that wasn't considered when these buses were designed, or is my concern unfounded?

Similar designs are still used today, there's a seat at the front of later Volvo B7RLEs right behind the door, with a glass panel in front of you. Similarly, Scania OmniLinks have seats behind the driver's cab, with a tinted window in front of you.

 

[Gloster]

I think that even back on the 1980s many of the ‘glass’ panels were not ordinary glass but either special types of toughened glass, or Perspex or plastic composites. I presume that the panel was intended to allow passengers seated in that seat to see forward, but prevent them falling down the well behind the doors if the leant forward too much, stumbled when standing up, slid off the seat because they were too alcoholically relaxed, etc. (If a passenger can do something stupid, they will, and then complain.)

 

[CBlue]

Brand new buses are still build with passenger seats located directly behind glass panes (see any E400MMC as a good example of this).

Glass probably isn't bulletproof but likely would be toughened or laminated to stop anyone shattering it by giving it a whack, or in the event of a crash. I'm not sure if there are any crashworthiness standards for buses (I understand coaches in the EU have to meet rollover and "car underrun" requirements) as they're usually considered to be operating at far lower speeds. Admittedly across the UK it's a little different in having service buses operate longer distance and higher speed routes....

 

[Bungle73]

Oh, ok, thanks. I guess it's not really a concern then. Not that it really matters to me now, since it was so long ago. Since I left London I hardly uses buses these days, mainly trains or the Tube or walking or cycling. And when I have I didn't take much notice of the layout - like I say it's something that only recently occured to me.

 

[Busaholic]

I think that even back on the 1980s many of the ‘glass’ panels were not ordinary glass but either special types of toughened glass, or Perspex or plastic composites. I presume that the panel was intended to allow passengers seated in that seat to see forward, but prevent them falling down the well behind the doors if the leant forward too much, stumbled when standing up, slid off the seat because they were too alcoholically relaxed, etc. (If a passenger can do something stupid, they will, and then complain.)

That'd be my memory too. I did a fair bit of travelling on the P3 when it was Atlantean operated, but not being a National fan avoided it after that. The 'glass' didn't look like window glass, but a perspex/glass amalgam, if such a thing is possible, or maybe just toughened glass.

 

[Roger1973]

I'm almost certain that the construction and use regulations by then would have required glass anywhere like this to be some form of safety glass.

Thinking about it, it's not that much different from the front top deck seat on any bus, or the front lower deck seat on a traditional rear entrance half-cab bus (with the exception of the few types that had a rear facing bench seat at the front of the lower deck)

London's dual door DMS's (for example) also had a partition with a glass panel either side of the centre doors - there's interior pictures on Ensign's web page for DM 2646.

 

[820KDV]

Early Leyland Nationals actually had glass panels on both sides of the saloon in front of the first row of seats on the raised area at the rear, including on single door versions, a feature I always liked as a child.

I remember sitting on the seat in question on a LS type National and, with both sets of doors open, realised I was looking through 12 pieces of glass to see out of the front of the bus. Yes, my commute on the 116 / 117 was so exciting that my mind would wander to such trivia!