Level Crossings v Trams and road traffic crossings

[CardiffKid]

Hi,

Question for you Rail Experts. Network Rail are removing a number of level crossings from across the country and not introducing any more on safety grounds.

Are there any examples of a ‘crossroads’ where a tramway crosses a road and if so how/why is that allowed where level crossings are being greatly reduced in number?

Cheers

 

[talltim]

There's loads. In Sheffield certainly they are controlled by traffic lights for the road vehicles and tram signal for the trams. They are normally approach controlled for the trams (i.e. they change to allow the trams when they get near) Here's a a pretty simple example
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.3...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sopj-6auj1ImTzYxzpD3zyA!2e0

 

[CallySleeper]

Tramways aren't operated or owned by Network Rail, so their policies can't cover tram crossings.

By their nature, trams often run on roads and cross them either perpendicular or from one lane to another. Also, trams are light rail and differ from the characteristics of trains.

 

[Harpers Tate]

The substantial difference between a Tram (a rail vehicle which can operate along a track embedded in a roadway and can mix with other traffic) and a Train is its ability to stop. They are equipped with friction braking systems that make their stopping distance commensurate with or better than other traffic. Thus they constitute no greater risk to those onboard or to other road users than, say, buses, trucks etc., and thus don't require the same special treatment. You can add to that the fact that, where mixed with other traffic and/or at points of conflict, they will adhere to the same, or lower speed limits than other traffic.

 

[jopsuk]

trams (generally) travel much slower than trains- especially near road crossings and on road sections- and typically can brake much, much faster- many have track brakes.

Crossing on non-street sections can be as simple as a give way!

 

[CallySleeper]

This is a great example of some on-street running, including crossing road junctions.

In these videos you can see that the tramway runs parallel to Network Rail tracks and shares some level crossings with it. The one at 2:38 in the first video, while being adjacent to a NR level crossing is actually protected by red/amber/green road signals. The ones in the second video are all protected by standard level crossing road signals.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

LRT trams are a lot slower than a train. Max speed normally 30mph (Bombadier Flexity are rated at 40mph) Levels crossings (without barriers) & facing points 5-10mph. Pedestrian areas 10 - 20mph. There are tighter curves which they have take at a slow speed.
The emergency electromagnetic track brakes are very effective!
In Blackpool the bus is quicker!!
LRT win out when there is congestion on the road!

 

[142094]

Takes 150m for a Tyne and Wear Metro to stop going full pelt (50mph) when the track brake is applied.

 

[Jonny]

LRT trams are a lot slower than a train. Max speed normally 30mph (Bombadier Flexity are rated at 40mph) Levels crossings (without barriers) & facing points 5-10mph. Pedestrian areas 10 - 20mph. There are tighter curves which they have take at a slow speed.
The emergency electromagnetic track brakes are very effective!
In Blackpool the bus is quicker!!
LRT win out when there is congestion on the road!

The M5000 (tram) used on Manchester Metrolink is a flexity and is rated for 50mph i.e. 80km/h

 

[button_boxer]

And I'm pretty sure Sheffield trams can get up to 50mph on the segregated stretch around Carbrook/Tinsley.

 

[andyb2706]

trams (generally) travel much slower than trains- especially near road crossings and on road sections- and typically can brake much, much faster- many have track brakes.

Crossing on non-street sections can be as simple as a give way!

I can concur from experience that a trams braking system is much faster....it is just unfortunate for the passengers travelling on the tram that the human body can't stop as quick as the tram. I have seen it on a few occasions were the passengers nearly endedup sitting with the driver.

 

[tsr]

And I'm pretty sure Sheffield trams can get up to 50mph on the segregated stretch around Carbrook/Tinsley.

Croydon CR4000 trams will also get up to 50mph quite easily, with anything up to crush loading, and I reckon that if they were modified, they could go somewhat faster. They're fairly powerful - I'm fairly sure they can tow their own weight up pretty much any section of the Croydon Tramlink network, including in bad weather (which is rather handy if another tram fails in an awkward position and can't be fixed). On the other hand, the newer Variobahn trams feel quite sluggish. Some of the official speed limits and expectations even appear to have been lowered, in order to officially take into account the most realistic performance achievable.

 

[edwin_m]

Tram top speed is typically 45-50mph (75 or 80km/h). I think the Blackpool Flexities are capable of this and there are certainly "50" signs up on the tramroad but I don't recall if they use mph or km/h.

Besides the other reasons mentioned, trams have smooth end fairings which are designed to minimise the risk to other road users in a collision. There have been some nasty collisions involving trams but no doubt the same could be said of buses.

 

[snowball]

Takes 150m for a Tyne and Wear Metro to stop going full pelt (50mph) when the track brake is applied.

In some respects the Tyne & Wear Metro is more like a railway than a tramway. It has no on-street running, its overhead power supply is at a higher voltage than would be allowed on a tramway, I think it has railway-style block signalling throughout, and as far as I know its level crossings are just like railway level crossings.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Manchester Metrolink has a top speed of 50mph, often attained on the ex-railway sections. On-street sections have the same speed limit as for road vehicles, or less on tight curves.

Most of its level crossings have no gates or barriers but signals which to the road user look like ordinary traffic lights. There are a couple of rail-style crossings at Navigation Road and Deansgate Lane near Altrincham, where the former two-track railway became one bidirectional NR line plus one bidirectional Metrolink line. These two crossings are controlled by the NR signaller.

 

[richardio123]

This is from the new airport line on Manchester Metrolink

Speed limit here is about 40 or 50mph

From another member on SSC not my Photo

 

[starrymarkb]

In Leipzig there are standard T-junctions that trams come out from (and then stop at the lights just after the junction blocking the road because there isn't enough space for a 45m Flexity XXL or Triple Tatra.

Also with Dolitz Depot being rebuilt the turnaround loop isn't available, so the tram pulls into the depot and then just reverses out into the traffic (I'm not sure if they use the rear controls on the XXLs, they didn't stop long enough IMO!)

 

[Flying Snail]

While trams can interact with other traffic and pedestrians safely for the reasons mentioned already the weak point is the same as with rail crossings; road users ignoring signals.

The Dublin tram operator Luas has released a video showing a bunch of non fatal incidents to try and highlight the problem of people breaking lights at tram crossings. This is due to the number of collisions occurring including a very nasty fatal crash 2 months ago. A car breaking a red light was shunted by a tram into a pedestrian who was crushed.

They are also installing red light cameras at some of the worst junctions, something that should have been done years ago as the red light breaking here has gotten much worse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TYDA4k3w3lE

 

[142094]

In some respects the Tyne & Wear Metro is more like a railway than a tramway. It has no on-street running, its overhead power supply is at a higher voltage than would be allowed on a tramway, I think it has railway-style block signalling throughout, and as far as I know its level crossings are just like railway level crossings.

The crossings are the same (Automatic Open Crossing - Locally Monitored) but the safety system is a lot more developed than on other railways. For all of the crossings there is a set of decreasing speeds which the driver must obey, if not the emergency track brake applies. Plus there is then the signal which acts as another measure to prevent a collision.

 

[TOCDriver]

Thus they constitute no greater risk to those onboard

They are far more dangerous to those on board. The sheer force of a modern tram on emergency brake application in street running mode is breathtaking. No seatbelts on trams too! They could quite easily throw anybody off their seat with violent force. And for those standing..... You could quite easily hurt yourself very substantially

 

[edwin_m]

They are far more dangerous to those on board. The sheer force of a modern tram on emergency brake application in street running mode is breathtaking. No seatbelts on trams too! They could quite easily throw anybody off their seat with violent force. And for those standing..... You could quite easily hurt yourself very substantially

It's typically 25%g. Most cars can pull twice that.

 

[najaB]

They are far more dangerous to those on board. The sheer force of a modern tram on emergency brake application in street running mode is breathtaking. No seatbelts on trams too! They could quite easily throw anybody off their seat with violent force. And for those standing..... You could quite easily hurt yourself very substantially

Given that it's an emergency brake, my guess is that those standing passengers would be at risk of much greater injury if it wasn't so effective.