Lettering in Route indicators

[strange6]

Is there any convention on using lettering in route indicators? Sometimes they can be abbreviated line names, e.g MT = Main Through S = Slow F=Fast etc and I have seen them indicating location like the name of a town in which the line is heading

 

[Minilad]

Usually use the name of the line that the route is set for. But I am sure there are plenty of oddities, there usually are !

 

[Bedpan]

I always remember somebody asking why MT denoted Main Through when frough started with an F

 

[strange6]

I always remember somebody asking why MT denoted Main Through when frough started with an F

That reminds me of the signal at Salford Central going into man vic. It can either display US or UF. And to this day I keep trying to think of where the fast and slow lines are going into Manchester Victoria from Salford Central assuming that's what they mean

 

[driver9000]

Correct, US is Up Salford Slow and UF is Up Salford Fast at Salford Central. The Up Salford Fast is is the line on the left (as though looking from Central) leading to platform 6 and the Up Salford Slow is 3rd from the left and leads to platform 4 at Manchester Victoria.

The signals on the Crescent end of Salford Central can show a letter A which denotes the Arrivals line in Hope Street yard, the Salford Crescent direction starting signal on the Up line at Central can also show a D denoting Down.

 

[strange6]

Correct, US is Up Salford Slow and UF is Up Salford Fast at Salford Central. The Up Salford Fast is is the line on the left (as though looking from Central) leading to platform 6 and the Up Salford Slow is 3rd from the left and leads to platform 4 at Manchester Victoria.

The signals on the Crescent end of Salford Central can show a letter A which denotes the Arrivals line in Hope Street yard, the Salford Crescent direction starting signal on the Up line at Central can also show a D denoting Down.

Your route knowledge is excellent my friend. I did wonder about the lines going into Victoria since my Wigan - Rochdale train is always routed UF and goes into Platform 6. Quite complicated these big station routings

 

[driver9000]

If a train is routed UF at Salford it can only access platforms 5 and 6 (the platform is indicated in the next signal at Victoria West Junction). If routed US then the train can only access platforms 3 and 4. Half way along Victoria platforms the line names change to 'Rochdale' but they keep the same up/down/fast/slow designations.

 

[strange6]

If a train is routed UF at Salford it can only access platforms 5 and 6 (the platform is indicated in the next signal at Victoria West Junction). If routed US then the train can only access platforms 3 and 4. Half way along Victoria platforms the line names change to 'Rochdale' but they keep the same up/down/fast/slow designations.

Thanks for that. I understand it now

 

[Mojo]

I always used to chuckle when the route indicators on the starter signal at Bristol Temple Meads read ''UM'' (at least that's what I think it is, it may be 'UF'') to signify ''Up (Filton) Main.'' Of course the four track formation to Filton was ripped up a few years back and the Main barely makes it a mile out of the station before a single lead junction chucks both lines onto the Filton lines.

 

[driver9000]

At Liverpool Lime Street there are stencils on the back of the signals (for when locos started beyond the signal), the one that always amused me was for the Fast line when the stencils lit up with F OFF.

 

[strange6]

I always used to chuckle when the route indicators on the starter signal at Bristol Temple Meads read ''UM'' (at least that's what I think it is, it may be 'UF'') to signify ''Up (Filton) Main.'' Of course the four track formation to Filton was ripped up a few years back and the Main barely makes it a mile out of the station before a single lead junction chucks both lines onto the Filton lines.

Some of these route indicators are not as straightforward as they seem. I bet they're are quite a few more examples like this
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

At Liverpool Lime Street there are stencils on the back of the signals (for when locos started beyond the signal), the one that always amused me was for the Fast line when the stencils lit up with F OFF.

hahaha That's a modern day term of saying 'be away with you!'

 

[pendolino]

Is there any convention on using lettering in route indicators? Sometimes they can be abbreviated line names, e.g MT = Main Through S = Slow F=Fast etc and I have seen them indicating location like the name of a town in which the line is heading

Leaving London Bridge (on the Southern side), S stands for South London rather than Slow.

It's all quite complicated there:

The platform starter signal route indicators can show D, C or B
Plat 8/9/10/11: D or C
Plat 12/13: D, C or B
Plat 14/15/16: don't actually have a route indicator. They just lead to section B*.

D/C/B refer to the next 3 signals out (left to right). The route indicators on these can show:
D: M (Main) or L (passenger Loop)
C/B: U (Up main, wrong direction) or S (South London)

M is the Down Main (which at Blue Anchor Jct about a mile and half from London Bridge splits into the Down Fast and Down Slow)
U is the Up Main in the wrong direction, but only for one signal section after which you're routed back onto the Down Main
S is the Down South London which splits at Spa Road Jct into Down South London and Down Reversible (which, in effect, is the up slow as in the Up direction it merges with the Up Fast to become the Up Main at Spa Road Jct)
L would be a wrong route for Southern - not sure that anyone signs it any more (FCC/Southeastern might)

Basically if you're heading for South Bermondsey you need B+S or C+S or (from plats 14-16) just an S on the second signal. If you're heading for New Cross Gate you need D+M. Except you can take an S and still get to NXG by taking the Down South London, then onto the reversible at Spa Road, via South Bermondsey Jct, to Bricklayers' Arms Jct (and so onto the Down Slow or Down Fast just before NXG), or stay on the Down South London to South Bermondsey Jct, and take the Down Spur to Bricklayers' Arms Jct.

Got all that? Good.

*There is an A section: the last signals before entering the station are A,B,C,D, left to right, but A is only signalled in the Up direction so you can't leave London Bridge via A section

 

[strange6]

Leaving London Bridge (on the Southern side), S stands for South London rather than Slow.

It's all quite complicated there:

The platform starter signal route indicators can show D, C or B
Plat 8/9/10/11: D or C
Plat 12/13: D, C or B
Plat 14/15/16: don't actually have a route indicator. They just lead to section B*.

D/C/B refer to the next 3 signals out (left to right). The route indicators on these can show:
D: M (Main) or L (passenger Loop)
C/B: U (Up main, wrong direction) or S (South London)

M is the Down Main (which at Blue Anchor Jct about a mile and half from London Bridge splits into the Down Fast and Down Slow)
U is the Up Main in the wrong direction, but only for one signal section after which you're routed back onto the Down Main
S is the Down South London which splits at Spa Road Jct into Down South London and Down Reversible (which, in effect, is the up slow as in the Up direction it merges with the Up Fast to become the Up Main at Spa Road Jct)
L would be a wrong route for Southern - not sure that anyone signs it any more (FCC/Southeastern might)

Basically if you're heading for South Bermondsey you need B+S or C+S or (from plats 14-16) just an S on the second signal. If you're heading for New Cross Gate you need D+M. Except you can take an S and still get to NXG by taking the Down South London, then onto the reversible at Spa Road, via South Bermondsey Jct, to Bricklayers' Arms Jct (and so onto the Down Slow or Down Fast just before NXG), or stay on the Down South London to South Bermondsey Jct, and take the Down Spur to Bricklayers' Arms Jct.

Got all that? Good.

*There is an A section: the last signals before entering the station are A,B,C,D, left to right, but A is only signalled in the Up direction so you can't leave London Bridge via A section

Jeez. It's no wonder driver training takes so long.

 

[westcoaster]

L would be a wrong route for Southern - not sure that anyone signs it any more (FCC/Southeastern might)

Ohhh I sign that, take the L onto the up platform loop, then route 4indicator out on to 5down, up to blue anchor, route 1 ( down London bridge slow) or 2 (down London bridge fast), never heard of it being used though. I would guess that would be a move if high level was closed and southeastern were to use low level. It can also be done in reverse, up London bridge fast to spa road route 4 at L522 onto the up platform loop until L130, route 4 to L494(D), and into to p8-12.

 

[142094]

One at Newcastle I often see is "T", haven't found out what it means yet. Sunderland station has two used on the southbound platform, "HL" for Hartlepool and IIRC "SH" for South Hylton. May also be others for access to the two sidings.

 

[strange6]

One at Newcastle I often see is "T", haven't found out what it means yet. Sunderland station has two used on the southbound platform, "HL" for Hartlepool and IIRC "SH" for South Hylton. May also be others for access to the two sidings.

There doesn't seem to be a set standard for assigning route indicator letters and numbers. At the end of the day, I think it's what works best at the local level.

 

[driver9000]

It is defined by locality. To use the Newcastle example T means one thing there but at say, Preston T identifies the 'Through' line and SH at Wigan Springs branch indicates 'Saint Helens'.

 

[Railsigns]

The route indication "T" at Newcastle applies to the Slow Line between Newcastle and Heaton. I don't know why "T" was chosen instead of "S", though it may be to avoid confusion with the Sunderland lines.

 

[moggie]

Use of Route Indicator legends are goverened by Railway Group Standards - some letters or combinations of letters are restricted to certain uses only - for example the legend X denoted a signalled movement in the opposite direction to normal traffic or to a limit of shunt signal - often in combination with other letters.

Use of some letters are prevented as they could cause confusion with other allowable legends.

The actual indication is determined by the signal engineer in conjunction with the Operations side as part of the signalling plan design and approval process. Combination of letters and numbers must be able to fit the display parameters of the type of Route Indicator to be used which is often a contraining factor.

Legend must be clear, consistent and generally meaningful to the local area as well as the whole route where practicable.

Creativity often plays a role is trying to achieve the latter.

 

[ChrisCooper]

Especially where lines are bi-directional, they will quite often just be designated A, B, C etc. From Kings Cross for example the tracks through Gasworks Tunnel are A-D from right to left, so trains for the Down Fast get a B, Down slow a D. Norwich is another one with letters like that. Trains for the Norfolk Branches get A, and can get B. Trains for London and Ely get either C or D. There are a few other letters relating to sidings, including Crown Point reception roads.

Quail Maps are good because they shown the designations of each line.

 

[142094]

The route indication "T" at Newcastle applies to the Slow Line between Newcastle and Heaton. I don't know why "T" was chosen instead of "S", though it may be to avoid confusion with the Sunderland lines.

Thanks for that. Any idea what other letters are used at Newcastle? "C" I guess is for Carlisle?

 

[Railsigns]

Thanks for that. Any idea what other letters are used at Newcastle? "C" I guess is for Carlisle?

At the west end, you've got:

"C" - Up Slow
"S" - Down Slow
"U" - Up Main
"D" - Down Main
"F" - Forth Branch

and at the east end:

"D" - Down Main
"U" - Up Main
"T" - Slow Line
"E" - Up Sunderland
"W" - Down Sunderland

 

[142094]

Excellent, I'll make a note of those. Always interesting to know.

 

[swt_passenger]

The route indication "T" at Newcastle applies to the Slow Line between Newcastle and Heaton. I don't know why "T" was chosen instead of "S", though it may be to avoid confusion with the Sunderland lines.

T for Tynemouth, I heard quite a few years ago, although it may just as easlily have been a wind up.

Prior to the Metro, electrifcation and three tracking along there, it was paired by route, the southern pair through Heaton was the route to/from Tynemouth.

 

[142094]

T for Tynemouth, I heard quite a few years ago, although it may just as easlily have been a wind up.

Prior to the Metro, electrifcation and three tracking along there, it was paired by route, the southern pair through Heaton was the route to/from Tynemouth.

That could be right, although it does seem strange that they'd use an obsolete letter seeing as the route to Tynemouth would have been disued for around 10 years before electrification. I've seen pictures of signals at Newcastle before they were replaced at the time of electrification but not sure if I've ever seen a "T" beign displayed.

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

Ive seen an X in the box at Sunderland, used on the Park Lane terminators as they use the crossover on the bend to access the down platform to turn back.

 

[Railsigns]

T for Tynemouth, I heard quite a few years ago, although it may just as easlily have been a wind up.

Prior to the Metro, electrifcation and three tracking along there, it was paired by route, the southern pair through Heaton was the route to/from Tynemouth.

Yes, that's it. I've just looked up details of the old signalling, and that pair of lines was designated the Up and Down Tynemouth. The route indication "T" was used with the old Newcastle signals too.

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes, that's it. I've just looked up details of the old signalling, and that pair of lines was designated the Up and Down Tynemouth. The route indication "T" was used with the old Newcastle signals too.

... and to think I always had niggling doubts about that gen when I first heard it. Sometimes it's amazing what you can memorise for future use isn't it...

 

[blue sabre]

One at Newcastle I often see is "T", haven't found out what it means yet. Sunderland station has two used on the southbound platform, "HL" for Hartlepool and IIRC "SH" for South Hylton. May also be others for access to the two sidings.

Could it be Tyne Valley line? Or does that not fit where it appears? Sunderland also has platform indicator just as you cross the bridge - it's never right for the Metro, directs them to the right platform face but shows the NR platform number.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Could it be Tyne Valley line? Or does that not fit where it appears? Sunderland also has platform indicator just as you cross the bridge - it's never right for the Metro, directs them to the right platform face but shows the NR platform number.

Note to self: read all of a thread before replying!

At leasr I got the Tyne bit right!

 

[142094]

I'll have to check that about the Metro at Sunderland, never normally look. I'm not even sure if the Metros ever use a different platform when going towards South Hylton, unless the ones that termiante at Sunderland in the early morning/late evening use the northbound platform. Would assume that they'd go into the siding and then reverse.