Letter of Complaint/Rant against EMT

[ChrisTheRef]

The following has been sent to EMT's customer relations, along with the relevant ticket.

Friendly staff and clean stations. Trains which miss out stations, overheat, and eventually catch fire. Welcome on board East Midlands Trains.

Dear East Midlands Trains,
Your staff are some of the best I’ve met. I travelled on six of your trains today (should have only been four, but I’ll get to that) and every conductor was nice, smiling, polite. One even let me sit in the first class section when I was sat on the floor by the toilet between Sheffield and Manchester. Your stations are cleaner than most, and your toilets are actually usable.
Last week, I was amazed to find I could travel the entire EMT network for only £10. I planned a trip to Leicester to visit friends. I usually use London Midland and Cross Country for the journey and travel via Birmingham New Street, but I decided to go via Sheffield and give East Midlands a try.
Ok, good bits out of the way. I arrived at Liverpool South Parkway at 0955 and the 1003 to Norwich actually turned up early. I boarded, had a table all to myself and was quite optimistic about a 90 minute blast down to Sheffield. Once we arrived in Widnes however, it all started to go wrong. Your train crew put over the tannoy “we are experiencing technical difficulties” which is railway code for “there is a small fire on board” After the fire had been put out, we got underway again, 40 minutes late due to the amount of safety checks which needed doing. As Liverpool – Manchester is a single line, we also held up two Northern services to Manchester, a TPE service to Scarborough AND your own service, running an hour behind the one spontaneously combusting.
As we approached central Manchester, there was another announcement. “Ladies and gentlemen, due to the late running of this service, we will not be calling at Sheffield. Change at Manchester Piccadilly”. So about 40 extra people begun to stand up and proceeded to run around the station, finding the next train to Sheffield. It happened to be your own service, which was running 20 minutes late due to the congestion in Widnes. We arrived at Sheffield roughly 80 minutes later than I’d originally planned.
On my way back from Leicester, there was an unbearable temperature in coach D. I’m not the type of person to write down numbers of trains, but I was almost melted so I thought I’d better report it. Hopefully 222002 means something to you?
So back in Sheffield, I found my service back to Liverpool, timed to depart at 1642 was due at 1718 due to “line side equipment failure”. When it eventually turned up at 1733, I found a wonderful piece of carpet to sit on. Whilst waiting at Sheffield, the boards changed, and said we’d terminate in Oxford Road, instead of going through to Liverpool. We did. From Oxford Road, I caught your service running an hour later and arrived into Liverpool South Parkway at 1922, exactly one hour after the previous train was meant to.
Your wonderful company delayed me by almost two and a half hours over the course of the day. You’ve cooked me in a 125mph oven, you’ve put me on the floor by the toilet as you didn’t have enough capacity and you’ve almost set me on fire. All for only £10.
Next time Red Dot Day comes around, I might spend £10 on a cheap flamethrower instead. At least it saves me going on board your trains.
I expect at least a full refund, if not more. Your website said Red Dot Day is a fantastic chance to try out your trains for the first time. I’ll stick with London Midland thanks.

 

[bluenoxid]

Yeah but you're never going to get set on fire and be carted round for just £10

I can see you getting told where to go. Remove the sarcasm, it just isn't even funny.

 

[adamp]

I lolled at the end. Very good
However I must disagree with a few points, somethings on there like lineside equipment failure is network rails job, not EMT's so they cant really do anything about that.
And also, it is the DfTs job to supply enough rolling stock to operating companies, EMT doesnt have much say over that I dont think.
But either way I still respect your effort and I hope you get a refund!
-Adam

 

[ChrisTheRef]

I think they HAVE to give me a refund under the charter. If it was based on how sorry for me they feel, I may tone it down a little.

 

[Darandio]

I respect nothing more than the way the story was told, very interesting indeed. As for a reply from EMT, I wouldn't even expect one after sending them that.

 

[Dai.]

here's hoping you get a refund and the EMT Lack of rolling stock has been discussed in a different topic, not that has any relevance but as someone else has said, two of those issues rely with different bodies one being DfT and the other being Network Rail.

 

[Daimler]

I respect nothing more than the way the story was told, very interesting indeed. As for a reply from EMT, I wouldn't even expect one after sending them that.

I think they have to reply to complaints, no?

A good read, that! Whether EMT think so is another matter...

 

[Darandio]

I think they have to reply to complaints, no?

Well, yes, but was that a complaint for the first 90% or just a comedy routine? It is only the last line that implies any request towards EMT and I dont imagine they got that far.

I agree with the OP, certain points are unacceptable but to put it in that way, no.

 

[dan_atki]

I can see you getting told where to go. Remove the sarcasm, it just isn't even funny.

Sarcasm gets you nowhere? Well, admittedly, it does detract from the seriousness of the complaint but it can actually work:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/t...e-worlds-best-passenger-complaint-letter.html

and what happened as a result? This did: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/t...r-offered-chance-as-airlines-food-tester.html

 

[SouthEastern-465]

The following has been sent to EMT's customer relations, along with the relevant ticket.

Friendly staff and clean stations. Trains which miss out stations, overheat, and eventually catch fire. Welcome on board East Midlands Trains.

Dear East Midlands Trains,
Your staff are some of the best I’ve met. I travelled on six of your trains today (should have only been four, but I’ll get to that) and every conductor was nice, smiling, polite. One even let me sit in the first class section when I was sat on the floor by the toilet between Sheffield and Manchester. Your stations are cleaner than most, and your toilets are actually usable.
Last week, I was amazed to find I could travel the entire EMT network for only £10. I planned a trip to Leicester to visit friends. I usually use London Midland and Cross Country for the journey and travel via Birmingham New Street, but I decided to go via Sheffield and give East Midlands a try.
Ok, good bits out of the way. I arrived at Liverpool South Parkway at 0955 and the 1003 to Norwich actually turned up early. I boarded, had a table all to myself and was quite optimistic about a 90 minute blast down to Sheffield. Once we arrived in Widnes however, it all started to go wrong. Your train crew put over the tannoy “we are experiencing technical difficulties” which is railway code for “there is a small fire on board” After the fire had been put out, we got underway again, 40 minutes late due to the amount of safety checks which needed doing. As Liverpool – Manchester is a single line, we also held up two Northern services to Manchester, a TPE service to Scarborough AND your own service, running an hour behind the one spontaneously combusting.
As we approached central Manchester, there was another announcement. “Ladies and gentlemen, due to the late running of this service, we will not be calling at Sheffield. Change at Manchester Piccadilly”. So about 40 extra people begun to stand up and proceeded to run around the station, finding the next train to Sheffield. It happened to be your own service, which was running 20 minutes late due to the congestion in Widnes. We arrived at Sheffield roughly 80 minutes later than I’d originally planned.
On my way back from Leicester, there was an unbearable temperature in coach D. I’m not the type of person to write down numbers of trains, but I was almost melted so I thought I’d better report it. Hopefully 222002 means something to you?
So back in Sheffield, I found my service back to Liverpool, timed to depart at 1642 was due at 1718 due to “line side equipment failure”. When it eventually turned up at 1733, I found a wonderful piece of carpet to sit on. Whilst waiting at Sheffield, the boards changed, and said we’d terminate in Oxford Road, instead of going through to Liverpool. We did. From Oxford Road, I caught your service running an hour later and arrived into Liverpool South Parkway at 1922, exactly one hour after the previous train was meant to.
Your wonderful company delayed me by almost two and a half hours over the course of the day. You’ve cooked me in a 125mph oven, you’ve put me on the floor by the toilet as you didn’t have enough capacity and you’ve almost set me on fire. All for only £10.
Next time Red Dot Day comes around, I might spend £10 on a cheap flamethrower instead. At least it saves me going on board your trains.
I expect at least a full refund, if not more. Your website said Red Dot Day is a fantastic chance to try out your trains for the first time. I’ll stick with London Midland thanks.

Good letter mate!.

What will cheese them off more is that you'll travel with LM next time!
Regards

 

[northwichcat]

So the guy is entitled to a £5 rail travel voucher (50% of £5 for a 60-119 minute delay on the outward journey and 50% of £5 for a 60-119 minute delay on the return journey) meaning if he/she travels reguarly between Merseyside and Leicester, as stated, they can easily use that voucher within 12 months and will effectively have paid £5 for their EMT experience.

Are you actually allowed to publish that letter? An insurance company launched disciplinary action when a letter from a customer got circulated around the Internet.

 

[Royston Vasey]

You come out of that sounding a bit pathetic to be honest. I didn't find it particularly amusing, just a bitter ramble. A few minor incidents/problems, some busy trains and some delays, mostly not EMT's fault but you've decided someone needs to have to read your tirade, and EMT's name is on the side of the train so they're the lucky recipients. You've run around all day for a tenner, sending a letter like that just leaves you looking narrow-minded and bitter.

 

[johnb]

Are you actually allowed to publish that letter? An insurance company launched disciplinary action when a letter from a customer got circulated around the Internet.

Eh? If he worked for EMT, then he could be disciplined for publishing it. But he wrote it, so he owns the copyright (and they don't have the right to 'discipline' him in any case).

You come out of that sounding a bit pathetic to be honest. I didn't find it particularly amusing, just a bitter ramble. A few minor incidents/problems, some busy trains and some delays, mostly not EMT's fault but you've decided someone needs to have to read your tirade, and EMT's name is on the side of the train so they're the lucky recipients. You've run around all day for a tenner, sending a letter like that just leaves you looking narrow-minded and bitter.

Sourpuss and grumpy-face! Sourpuss and grumpy-face!

I enjoyed the letter, anyway. And to a customer, it doesn't matter in the slightest who was originally responsible for the delays: his contract is with EMT, they failed to get him from place to place, hence they're at fault.

 

[northwichcat]

Eh? If he worked for EMT, then he could be disciplined for publishing it. But he wrote it, so he owns the copyright (and they don't have the right to 'discipline' him in any case).

I obviously misintrepted:

"The following has been sent to EMT's customer relations, along with the relevant ticket."

as something being said by a member of EMT customer relation staff, instead of a passenger.

 

[ChrisTheRef]

You come out of that sounding a bit pathetic to be honest. I didn't find it particularly amusing, just a bitter ramble. A few minor incidents/problems, some busy trains and some delays, mostly not EMT's fault but you've decided someone needs to have to read your tirade, and EMT's name is on the side of the train so they're the lucky recipients.

I'm sorry, the train caught fire, that's not a minor incident.

An 80 minute delay followed by a 60 minute delay is not a minor delay.

Busy trains, ok fair enough, but I wrote it as I was sat on the floor of a 158 so I had it on my mind

 

[Railjet]

As for a reply from EMT, I wouldn't even expect one after sending them that.

Why not? I'd be very surprised if they don't. The OP's journey was almost ruined by these incidents.

Are you actually allowed to publish that letter? An insurance company launched disciplinary action when a letter from a customer got circulated around the Internet.

Of course he is - he wrote it, and he can do what he wants with it.

You come out of that sounding a bit pathetic to be honest. I didn't find it particularly amusing, just a bitter ramble. A few minor incidents/problems, some busy trains and some delays, mostly not EMT's fault but you've decided someone needs to have to read your tirade, and EMT's name is on the side of the train so they're the lucky recipients. You've run around all day for a tenner, sending a letter like that just leaves you looking narrow-minded and bitter.

I disagree entirely. If these "few minor" incidents as you call them are accepted as par for the course - then it's shameful.

I think the letter was well written - maybe could have been tidied up a little, but the points were well explained, and the fact the writer praised the staff at the outset gives the lie to your description of him as narrow-minded and bitter, in my opinion.

 

[TEW]

The letter will most likely prove pointless as nowadays you are usually just required to fill out a form to receive compensation, and the reply you get will likely just contain that form, inviting you to fill it out.

 

[Greenback]

Speaking as someone who deals with complaints daily for a large organisation, and previously worked on complaints for a TOC, I would be pleased to receive such a letter as it would make me laugh! We are human, and where someone has a genuine complaint and the service we provided has not lived up to the organisations aspirations, we will always provide an apology and appropriate redress. I should imagine that will be the case here with EMT. I personally prefer to receive a complaint like this one than a pompous letter declaring that 'my time is charged at £275 per hour and so I expect to receive £550 in compensation as a resuklt of the two hour delay I encountered on your shoddy service'! Humourous and sarcastic complaints do actually brighten up the day!!!

 

[yorkie]

They may decide not to do more Red Dot Days, and put fares up, to try to address the issue of trains being overcrowded though.

A complaint regarding the number of carriages on the Norwich-Liverpool service is best addressed to the DfT.

 

[Drsatan]

They may decide not to do more Red Dot Days, and put fares up, to try to address the issue of trains being overcrowded though.

A complaint regarding the number of carriages on the Norwich-Liverpool service is best addressed to the DfT.

It's not necessarily the DftT's fault (though they have made a ****=up of rolling stock procurement, remember the farce on FGW when most of their 150/153s were stored at Eastleigh to save money on the DfT's orders). It's EMT's responsibility to decide on what services which unit should be used. I presume the Sheffield - Liverpool service that you had to stand on was just one 158 - well it would be EMT's fault for not adding an extra unit.

And, unlike what a previous poster said, the maladies this guy had to endure are NOT minor, in fact, the lack of air conditioning on a 222 with no opening windows would probably force a few people to go by car in the future. Certainly if I was a Japanese tourist and had to stand from Sheffield to Liverpool for about £40 + return I'd seriously wonder whether I'd got on the wrong plane

 

[tbtc]

It's EMT's responsibility to decide on what services which unit should be used. I presume the Sheffield - Liverpool service that you had to stand on was just one 158 - well it would be EMT's fault for not adding an extra unit

What extra units though?

When they split Central, DFT gave all the 170s to XC/ LM - EMT have nothing spare, and have only three additional coaches due their way in the future (IIRC), whilst LM are allowed brand new stock.

EMT know there's a problem with this line, they know they need capacity on the Sheffield - Liverpool part (Northern's new service on the Sheffield - Nottingham part has helped smooth out loadings), there's really not much they can do in way of a reply.

 

[WillPS]

The 3 coaches came over in December didn't they? They were 153s in First North Western "Two Star" livery, from Northern.

These were for the extended Matlock - Nottingham service I think.

 

[Helvellyn]

Unfortunately the Sheffield-Manchester-Liverpool services on EMT are notorious for overcrowding. I think it may have been unwise of EMT to include that route in the promotion when there are already issues, and the promotion would just encourage more people to use the train that day.

The fire would have to be checked to be properly out. It's not just a case of use some foam and away you go. The Rule Book is very clear on what must happen and be done. Unfortunate you were delayed, but safety must come first. At least the staff seemed to have tried to do their best.

It'll be interesting to see what EMT say in their reply, but all these things were hardly the fault of EMT. Who could foresee a fire? The air conditioning might have failed that day - decision is to run the train (albeit uncomfortable on board) or cancel it and inconvenience all those wanting to use it (if no spare unit available). And the lineside equipment failing would again be unforeseen (and a Network Rail issue). Hardly a good experience I'll grant you, but it'd equally say give them another go. All those things could equally have happened on London Midland you know.

 

[David Pemberton]

It's good that you wrote.

I doesn't matter what style one uses for the feedback (as long as it isn't abusive), just as long as one gives feedback and it conveys the key facts.

It would be interesting to learn if you get your money back. Or if you have to write again in a more formal tone stating terms of carriage or performance refunds or whatever might apply.

So far I have tried: analytical (your new timetable is worse by an average of xyz); sarcastic (if you stop at stations for 15 mins we could all go to the loo/buffet and you'd find it easier to keep to time); and constructive (I enjoy your quiet coaches, they'd be even better if the signage was a good as NXEC and CC).

If sent to Customer Services they all get exactly the same mechanistic reply.

One only gets sense out of Tim Shoveller and Emma Knight, but, I suspect, only when they think you've got the local paper or a website behind you.

 

[tbtc]

The 3 coaches came over in December didn't they? They were 153s in First North Western "Two Star" livery, from Northern.

These were for the extended Matlock - Nottingham service I think.

Sorry, yeah, just trying to compare the resources available, and picked a bcd example.

Comparing the local operator in the East Midlands to the local operator in the West Midlands is like comparing night and day, sadly

 

[yorkie]

Unfortunately the Sheffield-Manchester-Liverpool services on EMT are notorious for overcrowding. I think it may have been unwise of EMT to include that route in the promotion when there are already issues, and the promotion would just encourage more people to use the train that day.

At the moment Red Dot Day allows unlimited travel, but most "normals" will use it for a day trip to London. If there are many complaints from enthusiasts using busy trains on RDD tickets all over the EMT network, then we can expect to see the rules tightened . Let's hope this does not happen, but it's in our own hands...

 

[ChrisTheRef]

For your info, I got a letter back the other day.

I got a very apologetic letter and a full refund.

I also got two feedback forms (I did Thurs+Fri) about my views on Red Dot Day :roll:

 

[37401]

wonder when the next lot of RedDotDays are? I heard a member of station staff saying it was only mean to be EMD and Corby (the 2 new stations) but it was such a success they did more, im gueeing if they do more it`ll be a holiday thing

 

[Failed Unit]

It's not necessarily the DftT's fault (though they have made a ****=up of rolling stock procurement, remember the farce on FGW when most of their 150/153s were stored at Eastleigh to save money on the DfT's orders). It's EMT's responsibility to decide on what services which unit should be used. I presume the Sheffield - Liverpool service that you had to stand on was just one 158 - well it would be EMT's fault for not adding an extra unit.
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Now where could they get that from, maybe the could reduce a train on another route by 1 coach? Oh that would mean no train at all for said route as most of them are only 1 coach long and very overcrowded, so that would mean a bus instead. It is well documented that EMT don't have enough stock to run thier diagrams on a good day!