Letter from Greater Anglia prosecution unit

[chris1337]

Hi everyone, this is a very informative forum.

we really have a forum for just about everything!

On the 28th of Jan I was stopped by a revenue officer as I forgot to tap in and tap out

I had been on holiday for the previous week and half, the Monday in question was my first day back.
Out of my normal sleeping pattern I woke up late and had to run for the train, in my haste I must have forgotten to tap in
There are no barriers at my home station of Highams park.
At London Liverpool street, I tapped my oyster card (which is in my wallet) on to the machine.
The barriers stayed were open as I walked past the man at the barriers, as I passed through I was stopped and questioned.

Completely my fault.

He stopped me, he was a nice enough man, he said to me I would get a caution as its my first time. But I would also receive a letter and I should fill it in and send it back.

The letter finally came, it has a bit to fill in my details below. But at the top it says
All evidence is being considered as to whether to take legal proceedings
If you feel there are any mitigating factors we invite you to respond.

First off, should I be worried??
The man said I would receive a caution.


Second, do I actually reply?

I filled in the details and scanned a copy to my computer then emailed it to them with a letter of apology
But I’m not sure if I should send it via post.

Also I won’t tap in and tap out every day as sometimes I get lifts back from work, or I ride my bike.

So someday there will only be journeys to work, some there would only be journeys home. Other days there will be no fares at all.
Will this influence their decision?

I really hope you can help.

I’m not worried about going prison, just don’t want a criminal record. I can’t work as an accountant if that happens.

Thanks a lot

Chris

 

[district]

Surely if you touch out without having touched in first then you will be charged a maximum fare onto your Oyster card anyway, so the fare would be paid?

 

[bb21]

On the 28th of Jan I was stopped by a revenue officer as I forgot to tap in and tap out

I don't know how long you have lived at the place you currently reside, but "forgot" to tap in is a very weak excuse and don't be surprised if they don't believe you.

I had been on holiday for the previous week and half, the Monday in question was my first day back.
Out of my normal sleeping pattern I woke up late and had to run for the train, in my haste I must have forgotten to tap in
There are no barriers at my home station of Highams park.

As you probably gathered from other similar threads, this is no excuse.

The letter finally came, it has a bit to fill in my details below. But at the top it says
All evidence is being considered as to whether to take legal proceedings
If you feel there are any mitigating factors we invite you to respond.

The decision whether to prosecute will be made depending on your reply and how much evidence they have, what you said to them on the day, etc.

First off, should I be worried??
The man said I would receive a caution.

Did he caution you on the day? I expect that to be what he was referring to.

Second, do I actually reply?

Yes, of course.

I filled in the details and scanned a copy to my computer then emailed it to them with a letter of apology
But I’m not sure if I should send it via post.

Important communication like this is always recommended to be sent via Recorded or Registered Post. I can't say that I am aware of them being sent via email in prior cases so cannot possibly say whether it will work. Others might be able to help.

Also I won’t tap in and tap out every day as sometimes I get lifts back from work, or I ride my bike.

So someday there will only be journeys to work, some there would only be journeys home. Other days there will be no fares at all.
Will this influence their decision?

I doubt it. It only serves to strengthen the view that you know how the system works and you did not simply "forget" to touch in on the day of the incident.

I’m not worried about going prison, just don’t want a criminal record. I can’t work as an accountant if that happens.

Depending on what they prosecute you under, conviction might not always result in a criminal record.

 

[johnb]

While BB21's advice above is completely factually correct, it's worth pointing out that he takes the role in these threads of the prosecutor/judge - the worst take on your actions that you could be presented with in court.

To put it on a more pragmatic level: there are two possible offences you could be reported for here. One is (in layman's terms) travelling without a valid ticket, which carries a fine but not a criminal record. The other is (in layman's terms) deliberately trying to avoid the fare, which carries both.

You're definitely guilty of the first, and should cop up to it. But you need to ensure that your response does not imply that you are guilty of the second. I'd recommend highlighting the facts that - as you say above - you didn't realise when back from holiday on autopilot that you hadn't touched in at home, and that you didn't realise that the touching out at Liverpool Street hadn't worked.

I wouldn't say anything about your history, and I would post the thing registered post.

 

[Clip]

On the 28th of Jan I was stopped by a revenue officer as I forgot to tap in and tap out
At London Liverpool street, I tapped my oyster card (which is in my wallet) on to the machine.

The barriers stayed were open as I walked past the man at the barriers, as I passed through I was stopped and questioned.

Sorry, what did you actually do here? Forget to tap in or out or just forget to tap out when you left?


You mention the barriers stayed open - were the barriers open anyway as you approached them at Liverpool street? I know this occurs early doors so were they?

Also did you look at the reader pad to see if it had correctly charged you when you placed your Oyster on the reader?

 

[Mr Spock]

You're definitely guilty of the first, and should cop up to it. But you need to ensure that your response does not imply that you are guilty of the second. I'd recommend highlighting the facts that - as you say above - you didn't realise when back from holiday on autopilot that you hadn't touched in at home, and that you didn't realise that the touching out at Liverpool Street hadn't worked.

I wouldn't say anything about your history, and I would post the thing registered post.

Surely if he is a regular user of the station and "always" touches in then if on autopilot he would have automatically touched in.

 

[W230]

Also I won’t tap in and tap out every day as sometimes I get lifts back from work, or I ride my bike.

Hi Chris, i'm a bit confused by this comment above.

I assume you mean that you do tap in on entrance and do tap out on exit, just that you don't make the return journey on the same day? (ie - morning "tap in at Highams Park, tap out at Liverpool Street"; afternoon "get a lift home/cycle etc...") If that's the case then it's no problem as you don't have to make the same journey every day.

Or do you mean you don't complete your journeys on your Oyster card because sometimes you tap in and sometimes you don't or sometimes you tap out and sometimes you don't? If that's the case then there will be a history of incomplete journeys which will look alot worse.

I do struggle to understand how people on autopilot forget to tap their Oyster cards. Annoyingly I find when i'm on autopilot I tap it when I don't need to (ie using a staff pass - I realise i've accidentally walked up to the gate and touched in, instead of presenting my pass) but I know everyone's different so please don't take it personally.

 

[Stigy]

Were you questioned under caution? What questions were put to you and what did you respond with (even if not under caution)? The questions asked and the reponses given by you will help form the basis of any case against you, and help determine which offence, if any, to prosecute you using.

It's worth mentioning that it'll be a Criminal offence you are prosecuted under assuming that's that the decision they make is to prosecute, it just depends which legislation is used to determine the severity of the outcome (Railway Byelaw offences are non-recordable and the penalties are approximately half those of the more serious Regulation of Railways Act 1889 offences).

Did their letter define what offences they were looking at accusing you of breeching?

 

[Panda]

I feel the need to come to the OP's defence here to people who say "if you are on auto-pilot" then tapping in should be part of what you do. I travel to and from a station with a standalone Oyster reader most days and despite touching in and out every day, there are days where I'm on auto-pilot or just day-dreaming where I forget to do this (I'm on a travelcard, so it's at least okay). Highams Park is probably even worse than my station as the Oyster readers are tucked even more out of the way.

I'm not saying what he did is right, but it is super easy to forget to touch in, even though you do it every day.

Personally, I would rather them put the Oyster reader in a place where you cannot miss it, rather than just to the side somewhere out of the way so someone doesn't bump their toe on it.

 

[jon0844]

If the touch in was forgotten, the fact that a touch out attempt was made might help. If, however, the OP didn't touch out either (as the gate was open) then I think it will be a lot harder to defend because it would seem like obvious and quite blatant fare evasion.

 

[Panda]

Oh, there's confusion with that too.

On the 28th of Jan I was stopped by a revenue officer as I forgot to tap in and tap out

At London Liverpool street, I tapped my oyster card (which is in my wallet) on to the machine.

 

[jon0844]

I think remembering that detail will be rather important. In fact, it will probably help prove intent for a fare evasion charge, or a silly mistake that will still lead to a financial penalty but nothing too serious.

I guess the staff on the day know the score.