Leigh rail options

[po8crg]

Andy Burnham (MP for Leigh and Shadow Cabinet) has attached himself to the Transport for Leigh plan.

I don't think I'll bother explaining all the things that are wrong with this idea.

Leigh is not likely to be well-served by the LMR, whether by a station on the line (Kenyon Junction, but that's too far away), or by a spur (unlikely to be frequent).

It seems to me that are two options that are semi-realistic rather than total fantasies.

One would be to electrify the line through Atherton (ie Salford Crescent to Crow's Nest Junction), then lay tram-track along the Guided Busway route (the old railway line), build a new connection from the end of the Guided up to the railway line (between Walkden and Atherton stations). A tram-train could then serve Leigh, using the heavy rail track to Victoria and reverting to tram there. Leigh should have enough demand to justify a reasonable service frequency for trams into Manchester - two stops in Leigh, one or two in Tyldesley and one in Ellenbrook, plus one for Little Hulton where it joins the heavy rail alignment, and service the NR stations at Walkden, Moorside and Swinton plus 2x Salford.

The other would be a real rail line along the same alignment (which would mean closing the busway) and then a viaduct paralleling the Leeds-Liverpool canal to Pennington Flash and a new route across country to meet the St Helens-Wigan line just outside Bryn. There would be just two new stations, Leigh and Tyldesley. That would give St Helens Central (and other stations along that branch, ie Prescot, Eccleston Park, Thatto Heath, Garswood and Bryn, and probably the long-considered Carr Mill station) a direct, if slow service to Manchester.

Obviously the second option would be much more expensive and would require TfGM and Merseytravel to co-operate, but it would achieve multiple different transport goals in one link. There would be eight stations (five already existing, three new-build) connected to Manchester by direct services, which would presumably start at Lime Street.

Are there any other options I haven't considered that make sense?

 

[telstarbox]

The Busway currently under construction is intended to improve links from Leigh east to Salford and Manchester.

More generally, when rail for Leigh comes up, it seems to be assumed that everyone wants to go to Manchester, but Warrington is surely a major destination for Leigh folk given its size and proximity?

 

[po8crg]

The Busway currently under construction is intended to improve links from Leigh east to Salford and Manchester.

More generally, when rail for Leigh comes up, it seems to be assumed that everyone wants to go to Manchester, but Warrington is surely a major destination for Leigh folk given its size and proximity?

Not sure how much it really is. I don't think of the A579 as particularly congested through Winwick (which would be the main road route). It gets much busier when you cross the motorway, but that's clearly not Leigh traffic. Also Warrington is very spread out with relatively poor internal public transport, so many commuters have to drive anyway - e.g. Westbrook.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Would a tram-train extension of the Metrolink Eccles line do any good? Leigh has the misfortune that there are no surviving rail corridors which pass through the town and the cost of reinstating them would be high enough to ruin the business case. It would have the obvious disadvantage that it wouldn't be anywhere near as fast as a dedicated heavy rail link, but it would connect the town to the MediaCityUK development and it could prove the case for a more drastic intervention later with heavy rail.

 

[po8crg]

Would a tram-train extension of the Metrolink Eccles line do any good?

You'd have some serious work to do in Eccles to connect onto the trains and then bring them off again after Patricroft to get into Leigh.

 

[telstarbox]

As well as cross the M60 somehow.

 

[Howardh]

Would a tram-train extension of the Metrolink Eccles line do any good? Leigh has the misfortune that there are no surviving rail corridors which pass through the town and the cost of reinstating them would be high enough to ruin the business case. It would have the obvious disadvantage that it wouldn't be anywhere near as fast as a dedicated heavy rail link, but it would connect the town to the MediaCityUK development and it could prove the case for a more drastic intervention later with heavy rail.

Just looking at the old line (Leigh/Tyldsley/Monton) on a large-scale OS map, it seems pretty well untouched until you get to Monton. I think this is the line of the proposed "bus" route? Anyway, getting a tram from Monton to Eccles on the road (with an exchange at Patricroft) looks possible. But the end of the line at Leigh isn't particulary near the shops, or the bus/interchange station and there is little room for a car-park. Maybe a P+R outside town? As for the south of the town, all the new developments (with more to come??) seem to put a blocker on any rail line into Leigh that way.

Maybe there's a case for having a P+R station on the Liverpool line around Diggle Green which backs onto the East Lancs, with a direct and frequent (free??) bus from the station to the town centre?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Just looking at the old line (Leigh/Tyldsley/Monton) on a large-scale OS map, it seems pretty well untouched until you get to Monton. I think this is the line of the proposed "bus" route?....

The busway is planned to use the old railway line as far as Ellenbrook, where it would join the A580 (The East Lancs Road - which becomes the A6, joins Eccles Old Road (A576) and passes right through the centre of Salford) into Manchester. The East Lancs would gain a special bus lane to ease the flow of buses along the road as it is known to get very busy at rush hour (and screw anyone else who wants to use the road!).

....Anyway, getting a tram from Monton to Eccles on the road (with an exchange at Patricroft) looks possible....

Not sure there is a nice route on the roads tbh, I imagine Monton Road is a pig at rush hour (it's not exactly wide either) and Liverpool Road/Church Street is probably just as bad.

Other options might include going up (or is it down) the pedestrianised part of Church Street (to Eccles Railway Station) then left and down to railway level, heading down the north edge of the industrial units (by the M602) and turning south (along the old railway alignment) to join James Nasmyth Way (I don't think there is room down the side of the existing railway line) and then turning north onto Green Lane (at Patricroft) and following that north (along Canal Bank) to Monton Green (though there may be space constraints here), before joining the old Leigh line there.

....But the end of the line at Leigh isn't particulary near the shops, or the bus/interchange station and there is little room for a car-park. Maybe a P+R outside town?....

The beauty of trams is their ability to use rails buried in roads, perhaps joining Platt Fold St and then Brown Street North with a station next to the Spinning Gate Shopping Centre? Another option might be Princess Street and onto Chapel Street or Spinning Jenny Way?

 

[Howardh]

The busway is planned to use the old railway line as far as Ellenbrook, where it would join the A580 (The East Lancs Road - which becomes the A6, joins Eccles Old Road (A576) and passes right through the centre of Salford) into Manchester. The East Lancs would gain a special bus lane to ease the flow of buses along the road as it is known to get very busy at rush hour (and screw anyone else who wants to use the road!).



Not sure there is a nice route on the roads tbh, I imagine Monton Road is a pig at rush hour (it's not exactly wide either) and Liverpool Road/Church Street is probably just as bad.

Other options might include going up (or is it down) the pedestrianised part of Church Street (to Eccles Railway Station) then left and down to railway level, heading down the north edge of the industrial units (by the M602) and turning south (along the old railway alignment) to join James Nasmyth Way (I don't think there is room down the side of the existing railway line) and then turning north onto Green Lane (at Patricroft) and following that north (along Canal Bank) to Monton Green (though there may be space constraints here), before joining the old Leigh line there.



The beauty of trams is their ability to use rails buried in roads, perhaps joining Platt Fold St and then Brown Street North with a station next to the Spinning Gate Shopping Centre? Another option might be Princess Street and onto Chapel Street or Spinning Jenny Way?

Last point; dunno Leigh that well. I suppose Bury is a similar town but the end of the metrolink is where the old railway station used to be, so the infrastructure and space was already there. But if a tram can go through the centre of Manchester I suppose there's no reason why one can't go to and through Leigh!!

 

[WatcherZero]

The Leigh HS2 stop is crazy unrealistic. While a very recent feasability study of a normal stop on the Chat Moss line found that it wasnt very beneficial as it was just as far from the town as the Atherton line which Leigh residents currently use and would incur a time penalty on Manchester-Liverpool express services and of course the Scottish services now.

Wigan Council are currently working up the business case for a station at Golborne after a nod from NR with services to Liverpool/Wigan/Manchester which would benefit residents of Golborne and Lowton (lot of new housing planned for this area over the next 20 years).

I would personally argue for making the most advantage of the HS2 link by diverting Manchester-Scotland services on to it which would free capacity on Chat Moss for stopper services for Eccles and Patricroft and possibly a Leigh parkway or spur station.

 

[SeanG]

It must be noted that a lot of folk from Leigh also travel to Bolton

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Last point; dunno Leigh that well. I suppose Bury is a similar town but the end of the metrolink is where the old railway station used to be, so the infrastructure and space was already there. But if a tram can go through the centre of Manchester I suppose there's no reason why one can't go to and through Leigh!!

Metrolink is road running from Broadway to Ladywell (on the Eccles Branch) as well. Tbh I just used Google Maps, but it seems the old station site is mostly free for use with those nearby roads.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It must be noted that a lot of folk from Leigh also travel to Bolton

By bus or car....Oh dear, have I mentioned things that I should not...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The Busway currently under construction is intended to improve links from Leigh east to Salford and Manchester.

More generally, when rail for Leigh comes up, it seems to be assumed that everyone wants to go to Manchester, but Warrington is surely a major destination for Leigh folk given its size and proximity?

There are those on this forum to whom The Leigh Guided Busway is something that is still nothing than an idea still and one that can be conveniently forgotten..:roll:

Balfour Beatty are the appointed contactors who are actually working on this project.

 

[Bevan Price]

By bus or car....Oh dear, have I mentioned things that I should not...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


There are those on this forum to whom The Leigh Guided Busway is something that is still nothing than an idea still and one that can be conveniently forgotten..:roll:

Balfour Beatty are the appointed contactors who are actually working on this project.

And there are some of us who know that work has started, but still think that it is stupid idea and a great waste of public money.

 

[jp4712]

I used to live in Leigh, and Warrington isn't really a key destination. Manchester is by far the main one, followed by Bolton at a very distant second. Of course, Leigh used to have trolleybuses to Bolton until 1958 - now, if Andy Burnham would like to suggest bringing those back...

 

[6Gman]

It must be noted that a lot of folk from Leigh also travel to Bolton

Don't tell Burnham - he'll want HS2 to go there as well!

 

[snail]

Just looking at the old line (Leigh/Tyldsley/Monton) on a large-scale OS map, it seems pretty well untouched until you get to Monton.

That sounds like a tram line for the sake of it. It takes a good half hour to get from Eccles to Piccadilly Gardens because of the route around Salford Quays. How long would it take to get from Leigh to Eccles? Connecting to the Atherton line as a tram/train would be more logical if that ever happens.

 

[Howardh]

Don't tell Burnham - he'll want HS2 to go there as well!

If it did it would get it's wheels nicked!

(NB - I'm a Boltonian!!)

Notice @ Bolton Trinity St. the number of people sheltering in the lobby in front of the toilets now regulary exceeds those suffering in the so-called "waiting room" on P3.

Why can't we bring back hanging for designers who are simply berks??

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Don't tell Burnham - he'll want HS2 to go there as well!

Amazing to note what schemes what our beloved Members of Parliament will espouse once they realise that the next General Election is ever drawing nearer...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just looking at the old line (Leigh/Tyldsley/Monton) on a large-scale OS map, it seems pretty well untouched until you get to Monton. I think this is the line of the proposed "bus" route? Anyway, getting a tram from Monton to Eccles on the road (with an exchange at Patricroft) looks possible. But the end of the line at Leigh isn't particulary near the shops, or the bus/interchange station and there is little room for a car-park. Maybe a P+R outside town? As for the south of the town, all the new developments (with more to come??) seem to put a blocker on any rail line into Leigh that way. Maybe there's a case for having a P+R station on the Liverpool line around Diggle Green which backs onto the East Lancs, with a direct and frequent (free??) bus from the station to the town centre?

If you ask Nym for his views, he will come up with a most detailed technical posting of great length on that particular matter.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And there are some of us who know that work has started, but still think that it is stupid idea and a great waste of public money.

I realise that there are indeed some forum members such as your good self who do actually have their fingers on the pulse of current matters.

 

[Nym]

If you ask Nym for his views, he will come up with a most detailed technical posting of great length on that particular matter.

Look back through one of the older threads and you'll see how possible it actually is from what I have written. It would join the other line at Walkden and my proposed project would include electrification between Salford Crescent and Leigh (25kV AC OHLE) to speed up Wigan via Atherton services.

Services would be 2tph to Manchester Victoria. (This was to be ultimately combined with additional westbound facing bays on the Exchange side of things so that all Chat Moss services not TPE run through and leaving Stalybridge and Rochdale open for Salford Crescent services to terminate.