Leicester Train Services

[Martin_1981]

It's a shame the Great Central main line fell foul of the Beeching Axe, otherwise Leicester would have retained through trains to Manchester, Newcastle, Bournemouth and South Wales.

As tbtc mentions, perhaps the new 'Electric Spine' will bring about new electric services through Leicester to places such as Oxford, Reading, Southampton, Bristol.

 

[paulypaul]

Looking at it another way, how many times have you heard....

"where shall we go for a city break this weekend? I know, Leicester!"

With Richard III, The National Space Centre, Europe's largest covered market, Roman heritage, Leicester's Goldern Mile, Curve Theatre.....You'd be surprised!

http://www.visitleicester.info/visitleicester.aspx

Ah yes Belgrave Road Station

http://www.leicester.gov.uk/your-council-services/lc/leicester-city-museums/virtualmuseum/my-leicester-story/belgrave/belgrave-station/

 

[mr williams]

(notable losses include Norwich and Liverpool)

There was a through sevice between Liverpool - Norwich via Leicester in the 1980s which was class 37 loco hauled with mk I carriages.....and it was a very long journey with no buffet car!

There also used to be a daily though train from the NW (it definitely started at Manchester at some point) which ran to Harwich Parkeston Quay (now Harwich International) to connect with the ferry to The Netherlands, and I think that may have run via Leicester as well although I may stand to be corrected on that one.

 

[Welshman]

There also used to be a daily though train from the NW (it definitely started at Manchester at some point) which ran to Harwich Parkeston Quay (now Harwich International) to connect with the ferry to The Netherlands, and I think that may have run via Leicester as well although I may stand to be corrected on that one.

I remember it used to run from Liverpool Central, Manchester Central, Sheffield Victoria, Lincoln Central, Sleaford, Spalding, March, Ely & Ipswich and vv.

Then with the closure of the Woodhead route it was diverted via the Hope Valley, Dore south curve, Nottingham, Grantham & Peterborough, but I can't remember it ever running via Leicester.

Just browsing through my 1962 Eastern Region Timetable, I note there were some fascinating and diverse through holiday services from Leicester London Rd, such as to Clacton-on-Sea via Market Harborough & Cambridge, and to Sidmouth & Exmouth via Evercreech Junction. That one started back at Cleethorpes at 7am, and arrived at Exmouth at 5.40pm. What a journey!!

 

[AlexS]

By the 1980s wasn't it running between Harwich and Wolverhampton? May have gone via Leicester then I guess?

 

[Mr Spock]

Perhaps Edinburgh wasn't the most ideal comparator given it's capital city status, Reading, Portsmouth, Southampton, Middlesborough, Coventry are probably better examples of equally or less populous cities with better direct services.

Not sure Portsmouth and Middlesbrough (Note the spelling) are very good comparators either.

A lot depends on location and Leicester is not ideally placed on the rail network for a lot of routes at the moment. Perhaps electrification of various routes might improve the viability of running to other places but that is some time in the future.

 

[class303]

If you think Leicester has a poor rail service spare a thought for the poor so and sos who live in Northampton!

 

[paulypaul]

By the 1980s wasn't it running between Harwich and Wolverhampton? May have gone via Leicester then I guess?

Yes there was a direct Leicester to Harwich PQ service in the early 1980s, where it came from, I'm not sure, but I thought it was from Liverpool, because I remember going to Amsterdam on either the MS Princes or MS Queen Beatrix ferry.

Google offers this example:

http://www.eastanglianrailwayarchive.co.uk/Railways/Ely-Soham-Chippenham-Junction/19435249_LXLPRg/1555583237_TC7wP3L#!i=1555583237&k=TC7wP3L

 

[Jordeh]

Could easily argue Liverpool has a worse service in this respect due to its equally poor lack of direct links, and of course it is a bigger and culturally more important city.

4x less trains to London than Leicester per hour (further away admittedly).
No direct services to Scotland, the South of England, Newcastle, Bristol, Cardiff, Derby, Leicester etc

 

[whhistle]

The other thing to consider is the location of the actual station.
Many other stations are near on in the city centre, yet Leicester's station is being pushed further and further away from "where it's happening", what with the Shires opening out towards the back and the lack of work being done down whatever gate it is towards the station; that whole route could be pedestrianised quite easily (it may have been done already!).

But then our country is very good at going up and down. You'll probably find twice as many services going (pretty much) north/south but east/west there is a severe lack of trains. In this case the Leicester to Coventry line... the cities are fairly close yet the train service was axed.
I'm surprised there isn't a more frequent Peterborough to Birmingham service to connect the east with the west. Retford - Sheffield - Manchester would be another good one further up north.

I'm surprised Chiltern Railways haven't considered running from Leamington to Leicester via Coventry and Nuneaton.

However the problem is the lack of passengers... people are put off railway travel as it is.

 

[Mr Spock]

Getting from one side of Nuneaton to the other is the problem at the moment and until this is resolved a service from Coventry to Leicester is very unlikely to happen.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Even if you ignore obvious logistical problems (crossing Coventry, crossing Nuneaton) I'm not sure what would be gained from running a London - Leamington - Leicester service. If there is one place Leicester has a very good service to, it's London.

 

[bILLOO]

Just another thread whereby someone wants to go everywhere from there local station.

A great many of us want that but have to use whats available, my local station is Rugby where the basic daily services go to London, Birmingham and Crewe so if I want to go to Scotland, West Country, South Coast, York, Leeds, Nottingham, etc. I will have to change somewhere.

Get used to whats available and make the most of it because it is unlikely to change.

Still, better than what we get in Northampton (3tph to Birmingham and London with pretty much no fast trains) but like you say... we just put up with it.

 

[sprinterguy]

By the 1980s wasn't it running between Harwich and Wolverhampton? May have gone via Leicester then I guess?

The Liverpool to Harwich services were widely recognised for travelling via the Hope Valley line and Sheffield in the eighties as the lengthy loco-hauled formations made good photographic subjects. In the mid-eighties, these services were operated by 47/4s and air-con Intercity mark 2s. I believe that the train was named the "European". In my Summer 1992 National Rail Timetable, the 07:45 Harwich to Liverpool Lime Street, via Sheffield, and the reciprocal 13:54 return, is named the "Vincent Van Gogh"
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Still, better than what we get in Northampton (3tph to Birmingham and London with pretty much no fast trains) but like you say... we just put up with it.

You get regular 110mph running now (I just found out earlier today that some of the London Midland Birmingham services run at 110mph on the fast lines between Euston & Milton Keynes, not just the Crewe services via Weedon), which I strongly suspect is more than Northampton has ever had in the past, and a greater frequency of trains to the capital no doubt!

 

[dcsprior]

Perhaps Edinburgh wasn't the most ideal comparator given it's capital city status, Reading, Portsmouth, Southampton, Middlesborough, Coventry are probably better examples of equally or less populous cities with better direct services.

To a certain extent, the better connected a station is, the more sense there is in making it even more connected: for every town/city in the UK that has direct connection to Edinburgh, this also gives it a 1-change connection to half the stations in Scotland.

Adding more routes to Leicester won't really bring this secondary benefit (whereas adding them to Reading for example would).

 

[Gareth]

Could easily argue Liverpool has a worse service in this respect due to its equally poor lack of direct links, and of course it is a bigger and culturally more important city.

4x less trains to London than Leicester per hour (further away admittedly).
No direct services to Scotland, the South of England, Newcastle, Bristol, Cardiff, Derby, Leicester etc

You can add anywhere in Wales to that list too. Incredible when you consider Liverpool's location.

Of course, we're getting direct Newcastle services soon (and have one daily now, I think) and hopefully, we will see Scotland services in the not too distant future, touch wood.

 

[Martin_1981]

Looking back at some websites of loco hauled holiday trains back in 1984, there was a Bradford-Weymouth, a Leeds-Portsmouth, a Poole-Sheffield, a Nottingham-Paignton and a Penzance-Derby, all via Leicester. Some overnight holiday expresses too.

In 1988, there was a Poole-Nottingham train via Coventry, Nuneaton (where it reversed) and Leicester. An out and back Nottingham-Paignton 'Intercity Holidaymaker' ran until 1991 I believe, can't remember if in continued beyond then? Remember catching it in 1989 from Leicester to Taunton and back. Was great calling at Birmingham New Street without getting off and changing. Happy days!

Also, back in Virgin XC days, trains diverted off the NE-SW route when Derby-Birmingham was closed used to call at Leicester, whereas they don't now? Anyone know why this is so? Back in 2002 my parents went from Leicester to Exeter direct on a diverted service scheduled to stop at Leicester. Their first trip on a Voyager Think the train was going to Penzance I seem to recall. I remember seeing Plymouth, Penzance, Bournemouth, Edinburgh and Aberdeen on the departure boards around 2002 quite well. The Sunday Leeds-Plymouth HST always used to call. I also remember a Derby-Poole as well which was Class 47 hauled.

 

[A0]

It's a shame the Great Central main line fell foul of the Beeching Axe, otherwise Leicester would have retained through trains to Manchester, Newcastle, Bournemouth and South Wales.

As tbtc mentions, perhaps the new 'Electric Spine' will bring about new electric services through Leicester to places such as Oxford, Reading, Southampton, Bristol.

Two things - firstly the GC closure was NOT a Beeching closure - if you bother to read the Beeching report or many of the books about the GC, you will learn that the Beeching report proposed retaining the GC mainline as a secondary route. The GC run down and closure occurred as a result of BR re-assigning the route away from Eastern Region management (who were predominantly ex LNER and therefore pro the GC) to London Midland (who's people were ex LMS) who viewed the GC as unnecessary and therefore wanted it closed.

Exactly the same fate which befell many ex Southern routes in the south-west when operation was transferred to the Western region.

Having said all of that, there's no guarantee Leicester would have retained through trains to the places you mention - and as Project Rio seemed to indicate, there isn't a significant demand for Leicester - Manchester. If there had been, I suspect that Midland Mainline (as it was back then) would have lobbied to retain a Manchester service.

 

[paulypaul]

I'm surprised there isnt significant demand for Leicester to Manchester and the North West, given that there are direct services coming out of Nottingham, but I guess the 2hr via Shef service is better than the 2h45m trip via Brum.

I do take onboard the points made that the services to London are excellent, the problems of crossing the ECML at Nuneaton to provide any sort of service via Coventry and the importance of connectivity with other direct services at places like Sheffield/Derby, Birmingham and Peterborough.

 

[Metrailway]

Two things - firstly the GC closure was NOT a Beeching closure - if you bother to read the Beeching report or many of the books about the GC, you will learn that the Beeching report proposed retaining the GC mainline as a secondary route. The GC run down and closure occurred as a result of BR re-assigning the route away from Eastern Region management (who were predominantly ex LNER and therefore pro the GC) to London Midland (who's people were ex LMS) who viewed the GC as unnecessary and therefore wanted it closed.

You have clearly read a different report to me!

Appendix 2 of Reshaping of British Railways (Page 105) lists London Marylebone - Leicester Central - Nottingham Victoria; Banbury - Woodford Halse; and York - Sheffield Victoria - Nottingham Victoria - Leicester Central - Banbury under Passenger Services to be Withdrawn. BR were considering withdrawing the local services between Aylesbury and Sheffield Victoria before Beeching's report was published and this is shown on page 129 as Aylesbury Town - Sheffield Victoria (local) under Passenger Services under Consideration for Withdrawal before the Formulation of the Report. GC stations such as Rugby Central, Leicester Central and Nottingham Victoria are listed under Passenger Stations and Halts to be Closed. The report also contained a map (Map 9) which clearly shows the proposed end of all passenger services north of Aylesbury.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

...Having said all of that, there's no guarantee Leicester would have retained through trains to the places you mention - and as Project Rio seemed to indicate, there isn't a significant demand for Leicester - Manchester. If there had been, I suspect that Midland Mainline (as it was back then) would have lobbied to retain a Manchester service.

Correct me if I'm wrong by all means, but I was under the impression that MML (the NX TOC) wanted to retain the Manchester services after Project Rio, but were refused permission by the SRA because of Virgin's protected status on Manchester-London flows.

 

[Kettledrum]

Isn't there a freight line between Leicester and Burton that could be used to provide a commuter service into Leicester?

 

[PHILIPE]

This has been on/off for years with the present status "off"

 

[ivanhoe]

Central's crazy long distance stoppers use to give Leicester many options but all is not too bad. Half Hourly to Brum, twice hourly to Derby and Sheffield gives plenty of connections. Indeed look at the Connections timetable on Platforms 3 and you can see that with one change, many places are available. Imagine living in Coalville where your only connection is the Arriva Bus to Leicester Loughborough and Nuneaton.

 

[fsmr]

By the 1980s wasn't it running between Harwich and Wolverhampton? May have gone via Leicester then I guess?

Yeh it went through Narborough to Leicester via Wigston junction and on via Syston then to Oakham and Peterborough and across to Parkestone. In 87, it was still class 31 hauled with Mk1s as the wife used to get it from Narborough into town
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Isn't there a freight line between Leicester and Burton that could be used to provide a commuter service into Leicester?

It is stone freight now, and mainly single line however the odd rail tour has used it over the years and in the halcyon days of the Coalville Mantle lane depot open weekends in the mid 80s, there was even a first gen DMU shuttle that was run up and down the line from Leicester via Coalville and on to Burton, which i sampled at the time.
The first part of the Ivanhoe line from Leicester to Loughborough has been in use since the early 90s now stopping at new re opened stations at Syston, Sileby and Barrow on Soar, but the second section from Leicester to Burton via Coalville and Ashby has never gone further than feasibility studies. I believe that there is a lot of mining subsidence in places preventing moderate speed passenger operations not to mention the track and signal upgrades required
More if you require it here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanhoe_Line

 

[paulypaul]

I cant see the Burton to Leicester line opening up to regular passenger service anytime soon. The best shot for it was the late 80s early 90s, but as it didnt happen then, I cant see it happening now.

 

[jaigee]

Isn't there a freight line between Leicester and Burton that could be used to provide a commuter service into Leicester?

As per an earlier thread, it requires a reversal on the MML at present as it only has a southward connection.

 

[David Goddard]

The Liverpool to Harwich services were widely recognised for travelling via the Hope Valley line and Sheffield in the eighties as the lengthy loco-hauled formations made good photographic subjects. In the mid-eighties, these services were operated by 47/4s and air-con Intercity mark 2s. I believe that the train was named the "European". In my Summer 1992 National Rail Timetable, the 07:45 Harwich to Liverpool Lime Street, via Sheffield, and the reciprocal 13:54 return, is named the "Vincent Van Gogh"

The morning service of the "Vincent Van Gogh" conveyed two portions from Harwich, formed of a pair of Class 158s. These called at Ipswich, Stowmarket, Bury St Edmunds, Ely and Peterborough, where it was split with the front set going on to Nottingham, Sheffield, Manchester and Liverpool while the rear set went to Leicester and Birmingham.

Another interesting point about this train was that is made a double connection at Ely with a Class 156 working a Cambridge to Peterborough local. The 156 arrived in P3 about 0855, then the 158s rolled into P2 a few minutes later. The 158s then set off non stop to Peterborough at 0903 while the 156 waited until 0911 to follow, but calling at March and Whittlesea.

 

[Martin_1981]

The Liverpool to Harwich services were widely recognised for travelling via the Hope Valley line and Sheffield in the eighties as the lengthy loco-hauled formations made good photographic subjects. In the mid-eighties, these services were operated by 47/4s and air-con Intercity mark 2s. I believe that the train was named the "European". In my Summer 1992 National Rail Timetable, the 07:45 Harwich to Liverpool Lime Street, via Sheffield, and the reciprocal 13:54 return, is named the "Vincent Van Gogh"
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I believe the 'European' went from Harwich to Glasgow/Edinburgh via Peterborough, Nottingham, Sheffield, Manchester and the WCML and was class 47 hauled between Harwich and Preston. Think it ran up until around 1988, although in the last year of its operation I think it went via North London Line, Watford and Birmingham. Don't think it ever went via Leicester except maybe on weekend diversions.

Ipswich has a narrower range of destinations than Leicester. It no longer has direct services to Birmingham, Nottingham ,Sheffield and Manchester. Peterborough is about the furthest west you can get from Ipswich without changing. Failing that it is into the capital to get pretty much anywhere south or west.

 

[43074]

Ipswich has a narrower range of destinations than Leicester. It no longer has direct services to Birmingham, Nottingham ,Sheffield and Manchester. Peterborough is about the furthest west you can get from Ipswich without changing. Failing that it is into the capital to get pretty much anywhere south or west.

Yes, and even the Peterborough service is 2-hourly. Out of interest, when did Ipswich lose it's Cross Country services to the Midlands and North West and what was the service pattern like?