Leeds station improvement updates

[yorksrob]

To be fair, Boots can be handy at times. That said, it would be nice to have one ticket office that could sell all types of ticket at any time of day.

 

[skyhigh]

They have already closed so I doubt it. I think that spare unit might become home to Network Rails public reception.

The big question for me is: are they going to get rid of Boots and move the Ticket Office they're?

Im really hoping so, as it would allow the Southern concourse to be opened up and restored to its original length.

The spare unit is currently full of building materials, so I doubt anything is going in there any time soon. It's been rumoured that the ticket office and Boots are swapping places, but I'm not sure how true that is!

 

[xotGD]

A hole has been made in the fence at the far end of P1 presumably to provide access to the job site from the car park.

 

[rich r]

There's a copy of the plan on the Skyscraper City forums. I'm unsure of where it came from so can't provide a link to the source, only to that forum: https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=330017&page=128

 

[skyhigh]

There's a copy of the plan on the Skyscraper City forums. I'm unsure of where it came from so can't provide a link to the source, only to that forum: https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=330017&page=128

It's from the Leeds City Council Planning Portal (https://publicaccess.leeds.gov.uk/o...ils.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=PIY0TMJBKKI00) - other points of note:

The project proposes other station improvements within the southern concourse which offer a much-improved passenger experience. These works do not require planning permission but for information include:
- New floor & wall finishes throughout, providing a clean and consistent appearance.
- New ticket gatelines will be located to relieve congestion on the platform areas
- New CIS and Information/Assisted Travel Point will support a more intuitive passenger journey.
- Refurbishment Public WCs and the Network Rail reception will provide vital operational improvements.

The canopy onto New Station Street will also be replaced (with a smaller one!) and the other listed canopies are planned to be refurbished.

There's also an application to install two ATMs where the payphones used to be on the North Concourse, with a new retail unit taking the place of where the ATM was.

 

[yorksrob]

Only one cashpoint working on the concourse this morning - and a very long queue.

 

[Halifaxlad]

with a new retail unit taking the place of where the ATM was.

Great News, just what we need another retail unit to clog up the Northern Concourse whilst surrounding units remain empty!

 

[johntea]

Only one cashpoint working on the concourse this morning - and a very long queue.

The others have been out of action since at least Sunday!

 

[johntea]

Not quite sure where they're at with the roof, but there were a lot of workers there this evening with wooden planks! Presumably they're putting some sort of platform up there either for the workers so they can reach the roof or so the roof can be dropped on it and fitted in place then the wood removed?!

Either way they certainly seem to be getting a bit of a move on with the project!

 

[edwin_m]

If it's below the roof it's probably a "crash deck" so that whatever happens during the removal nothing falls on passengers below.

 

[Bantamzen]

Some work has begun at the end of P1, with a section at the end completely removed. I presume this is prep work for building P0.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Some work has begun at the end of P1, with a section at the end completely removed. I presume this is prep work for building P0.

I presume you're talking about that modern canopy? If so...great to hear!

 

[Bantamzen]

I presume you're talking about that modern canopy? If so...great to hear!

Sorry, I meant the platform itself. There was a gap drilled out just before the ramp at the western end of the platform, as well as some workmen's huts erected close by in the car park.

 

[Angelmoon]

With NPR and HS2 coming to the station, why have they ruled out a parallel station design for some highspeed platforms as some conventional platforms. Surely HS2 is going to bulldoze quite a few buildings in the area so why not maximize capacity on the footprint and make it an entirely new HS station to the south of the existing one? Any enhancements to the existing station can then be made with a new firm design in mind?

 

[Halifaxlad]

With NPR and HS2 coming to the station, why have they ruled out a parallel station design for some highspeed platforms as some conventional platforms. Surely HS2 is going to bulldoze quite a few buildings in the area so why not maximize capacity on the footprint and make it an entirely new HS station to the south of the existing one? Any enhancements to the existing station can then be made with a new firm design in mind?

Its a shame that the former 'Leeds Central' site has been developed over the past ten years, as it would be quite easy to build a brand new station for terminating services and link it to the existing City station by a covered moving walkway, that way HS2 could simply be routed through the existing station and then onto Liverpool & Manchester as NPR.

 

[edwin_m]

With NPR and HS2 coming to the station, why have they ruled out a parallel station design for some highspeed platforms as some conventional platforms. Surely HS2 is going to bulldoze quite a few buildings in the area so why not maximize capacity on the footprint and make it an entirely new HS station to the south of the existing one? Any enhancements to the existing station can then be made with a new firm design in mind?

Probably because HS2 approaches from the south-east and turning onto an east-west alignment would require making a big loop to the west (as the Woodlesford line does) or to the east of the station. Being longer this would cost more, extend the journey time and involve more demolition in the centre.

If NPR involves through trains between Sheffield and York then they will have to do something like this anyway, but probably by means of a connection to the existing line and using the existing station rather than a new alignment outside the station area. Within the station it remains to be seen whether there will be any new platforms (assuming NPR happens at all) but if there are then they would probably be in the area you suggest - so just as well HS2 hasn't taken the space first! An integrated design for all this will be important to ensure that the HS2 platforms can stop short of or pass over any future NPR platforms.

 

[modernrail]

If plans go ahead as....planned, will Leeds be a unique station in having a set of platforms at right angles to another set of platforms? A 'T' station so to speak.

I don't think NPR is going to happen. The idea of the Tories funding it is laughable, not enough votes in it and they are losing economic credibility by the day despite the fact that used to be about the only thing theu had going for them (I know some will disagree on even that). They are not to be trusted on the north and are being taken over my free market fundamentalists. Look at the total inaction over Northern Rail. The only way that position will change is if the Tory associations of the voting constituencies (yes that's right, 3 70 year olds in North Yorkshire) stand up and say it absolutely has happen. Even if they do, they will continue to do what they are doing now...kick the can down the road until after the election in the hope of securing northern constituencies and then drop it. Just look at the current electrification farce on the TP core.

The soul of the Tory party is now run by electoral strategists, not morals. Hence they promised a Brexit referendem to pick up a few votes at that election (it didn't actually give them as many as they were hoping but plunged the country into crisis and the right time for any referendem would have been at the time of the relevant treaty change, not when they wanted a few cheap votes), hence they called an election to secure position seeing a national crisis coming that would screw their brand forever (but instead we got a minority Government that paid a massive bribe to the party for the 18th century in Northern Ireland).

If you want anything in the north, better get talking to those 3 70 year olds. That's how undemocratic Britain has become.

 

[30907]

If plans go ahead as....planned, will Leeds be a unique station in having a set of platforms at right angles to another set of platforms? A 'T' station so to speak.

Just a slightly larger version of Liskeard

 

[modernrail]

Just a slightly larger version of Liskeard

Ah but do the platforms actually meet at right angles? It looks from the map that the lines just cross each other after the stations?

 

[Halifaxlad]

Probably because HS2 approaches from the south-east and turning onto an east-west alignment would require making a big loop to the west (as the Woodlesford line does) or to the east of the station. Being longer this would cost more, extend the journey time and involve more demolition in the centre.

I wouldn't have said it would cost that much more, but obviously a lot more than using the existing lines as planned. Below is a screenshot of the HS2 Interactive Map with my line drawn in blue of what would be needed for it to approach from the East, about 5km according to Google Maps.

 

[Angelmoon]

I wouldn't have said it would cost that much more, but obviously a lot more than using the existing lines as planned. Below is a screenshot of the HS2 Interactive Map with my line drawn in blue of what would be needed for it to approach from the East, about 5km according to Google Maps.

View attachment 57866

Why would you simply not just widen the existing alignment, that HS2 is already using and approach the station in the usual way, much like many LGVs do in France?

 

[Halifaxlad]

Why would you simply not just widen the existing alignment, that HS2 is already using and approach the station in the usual way, much like many LGVs do in France?

Here is the 'City Metric' article where I read about the idea of bringing in more trains from the East to free up capacity in the West.

City Metric / Here's how to fix the Leeds railway network / 14th September 2017. https://www.citymetric.com/transport/here-s-how-fix-leeds-railway-network-3328

Personally because I would also have HS2 carry on to Liverpool via Manchester as NPHR although not quite as fast as 250 mph. I don't see why really should stop in Leeds, although with its own individual station it certainly won't impact much upon the existing network.

This way would also be much cheaper as they're an ideal spot of heavily under-developed land in Liverpool, where a new station wouldn't have to be built upon on stilts. HS2 & NPHR lot need bashing together!

 

[edwin_m]

I wouldn't have said it would cost that much more, but obviously a lot more than using the existing lines as planned. Below is a screenshot of the HS2 Interactive Map with my line drawn in blue of what would be needed for it to approach from the East, about 5km according to Google Maps.

View attachment 57866

Here is the 'City Metric' article where I read about the idea of bringing in more trains from the East to free up capacity in the West.

City Metric / Here's how to fix the Leeds railway network / 14th September 2017. https://www.citymetric.com/transport/here-s-how-fix-leeds-railway-network-3328

Personally because I would also have HS2 carry on to Liverpool via Manchester as NPHR although not quite as fast as 250 mph. I don't see why really should stop in Leeds, although with its own individual station it certainly won't impact much upon the existing network.

That line would involve a major new viaduct across the Aire valley. The approach parallel to the A63 isn't particularly built up but the final section alongside the main line would need a parallel viaduct close to the city centre. This viaduct would probably also be needed for NPR to head eastwards towards York, but if used for both it would require a flying junction near Neville Hill, which would be difficult in the inner city. NPR has no real alternative so better to keep HS2 clear of this area.

This route would also leave HS2 pointing west, whereas ideally it would end up pointing east so as to allow trains from Sheffield and beyond to continue to the North East, which makes more sense than continuing towards Manchester. As I pointed out above, bringing HS2 in on the route of the existing line with east-west HS2 platforms takes up the space that NPR would probably need for its own extra platforms. So the best solution seems to be for HS2 to lead to terminating platforms on a north-south alignment, with a connection to the existing Woodlesford line so trains continuing further north can access the existing station.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

I wouldn't have said it would cost that much more, but obviously a lot more than using the existing lines as planned. Below is a screenshot of the HS2 Interactive Map with my line drawn in blue of what would be needed for it to approach from the East, about 5km according to Google Maps.

View attachment 57866

That means you have to quadruple the two-track section into Leeds East Jn., as that is already a capacity constraint without 4+ extra trains an hour on it, let alone its inability to deal with the wider (GC) HS2 trains. Secondly, you would have to extend and rebuild some (three?) of the existing platforms (HS2 GC trains don't fit NR platforms and the Leeds services are 400m long). Those would then be unusable by NR trains, so you'd actually have to build three new ones ... on the south side of the existing station, just where the proposed HS2 station is.

Easy and perfectly sensible otherwise ...

 

[edwin_m]

New platforms also have to be straight, or very gentle curves might be allowed if unavoidable. This means any new east-west platforms would be unable to "hug" the curved southern endge of the existing station footprint, so the new line would be some distance away from the existing one resulting in more demolition and disruption. This would probably be less of a problem with NPR platforms, as the trains and therefore the platforms are likely to be shorter.

 

[thejuggler]

The HS2 station is a side story. What it brings about is redevelopment south of the river. If you look around Asda House there are huge areas of single story development which is prime development land.

Get a station in there and you can double the size of the city centre as stations attract businesses. Not dissimilar to how Kings Cross is now developing.

 

[tbtc]

Hmm - this has got me thinking - could the Woodlesford services be diverted into the HS2 platforms? That'd free up four services per hour in the existing station - even if it'd be strange to see a Sheffield-bound 150 sat along the four hundred metre London services!

I don't think NPR is going to happen. The idea of the Tories funding it is laughable, not enough votes in it and they are losing economic credibility by the day despite the fact that used to be about the only thing theu had going for them (I know some will disagree on even that). They are not to be trusted on the north and are being taken over my free market fundamentalists. Look at the total inaction over Northern Rail

I'm left of centre, but to be fair, the Northern franchise let under a Tory Government gave us 195s, 331s and no more 142/144/153s, whereas the Northern franchise let under a Labour Government gave us "no growth" and no new trains. Not a black/white situation.

 

[edwin_m]

Hmm - this has got me thinking - could the Woodlesford services be diverted into the HS2 platforms? That'd free up four services per hour in the existing station - even if it'd be strange to see a Sheffield-bound 150 sat along the four hundred metre London services!

It would need an expensive flying junction somewhere between Woodlesford and Leeds, not to mention the capacity issues and the need to fit the 150s with ERTMS! Far more expensive than doing something about the inadequay of the existing platform 17. If NPR comes to pass there would probably be a flying junction going the other way in the same area, so NPR trains from Sheffield could use part of HS2 but terminate in the southern side of the existing station or new platforms next to it (or continue towards York).

 

[Angelmoon]

Leed's HS2 station will already require some extensive demolition to the south of the station as shown in the outline view below.


This is roughly the extent of the current plans with new approach viaduct needed for HS2. There are 5 platforms each 400m long. Below is the concept I outlined in my previous post showing the extent of the parallel station. It would likely require the rebuilding of some of the existing station to compliment the new HS platforms but thats not outside the scope of HS2s works.



This allows for through working for both HS2 and NPR trains using 6 new HS through platforms and retains the ability to expand on the North West side for conventional services. The eastern viaduct also adds 3 tracks for use by a mix of conventional and HS services. For reference below is also the current approach design compared to the one likely needed for a through station.

 

[edwin_m]

Leed's HS2 station will already require some extensive demolition to the south of the station as shown in the outline view below...

Note that the first footprint mostly covers nondescript low-rise buildings, probably dating back to the 80s and 90s. Your proposed alternative covers some much newer buildings including apartment towers.

Going round those tight curves would also add a couple of minutes to the journey time going south. How much does the maximum speed on the high speed section need to be increased to compensate for that?

Please see also my previous post about the need for the platforms to be straight.