Leeds Station Full!!

[Waverley125]

Despite the completion of the Leeds First project less than 7 years ago, the latest report has said that Leeds station is full. The increased ECML service to London as well as more trains on other routes means there's no more space in the station as per current arrangements.

The main proposal currently is to extend terminating services on the Harrogate & Caldervale lines to Mickelfield, so they can be turned around outside of the station limits, freeing up platforms. This, however, will put even more stress on the eastern approach, which sees 6 trains an hour plus freight in each direction, and which NXEC would like to use for fast leeds-london services if the Hambleton curve is electrified.

So it seems to me, there are two options for increasing capacity:

1) More platforms on current site. With the souther entrance being built, a new carpark could be built adjacent to this, reducing the need for a north carpark which can only be accessed through the city centre. This could allow 2 to 4 new platforms to be built on the site of the old Leeds Wellington station, which could connect into the North Concourse where the shops currently are. With electronic ticket barriers, these could be used for local services, freeing up longer platforms for through trains & NXEC/XC services.

2) Since the 'kissing towers' have been cancelled, it could be possible to buy back the old Central station site. The approach is still extant and the site clear, so a new station serving local trains could be built, connected to the existing station via a foot tunnel. This would be much more expensive, but a lot more likely to provide a long-term solution, as there is space for 4-8 platforms at a new 'Leeds Central' compared to half that at the existing 'Leeds City'.

 

[rail-britain]

Despite the completion of the Leeds First project less than 7 years ago, the latest report has said that Leeds station is full

Who published the latest report?

 

[Waverley125]

it was in the latest issue of RAIL, the head honcho from Northern IIRC

 

[1D53]

Its a fairly well established fact that Leeds station is full. Has been a known fact from NR for a long while now. The main problem stems from a lack of West facing bays, 1-5 are fairly exclusively for the use of trains to Harrogate/Ilkley/Bradford FS/Skipton/Carlisle/Morecambe, 6 is for NXEC only, 17 for Sheffield/Knottingley services via Woodlesford which only leaves platforms 10 & 13 for all the trains from Doncaster, Sheffield via Moorthorpe, Huddersfield, Hebden Bridge and Manchester, both are fairly short platforms too meaning you can't stack units plus would leave to problems with regulation as certain routes use certain stock, these services invariably end up using 11 & 12. In an ideal world you would gain two or three extra platforms over the car park allowing Man Vic & Doncaster services to use 4 & 5 moving Harrogate and electric services over to A?, B?, 1-3.

 

[BJMorley]

Does Beeching come to mind, anyone? :roll: :roll:
If he kept 2/3 of the lines he closed, I would of thought it would have improved service.
Brandon

 

[LilLoaf]

Well i don't see how the station can be full, loads of platform space when i was there ar rush hour last. Money should be spent on Birmingham New Street not Leeds. Yes Leeds is busy but not full not by a long way. I would say Manchester picc see's more trains that Leeds and its coping fine and it has less platforms.

There are lot of station in more need of investment. Leeds is not one of them.

I carn't remember last time my train stopped on approuch to Leeds. Been stopped more coming into Birmingham, Kings X, York, Wolverhamton, then at Leeds.

 

[1D53]

Well i don't see how the station can be full, loads of platform space when i was there ar rush hour last. Money should be spent on Birmingham New Street not Leeds. Yes Leeds is busy but not full not by a long way. I would say Manchester picc see's more trains that Leeds and its coping fine and it has less platforms.

There are lot of station in more need of investment. Leeds is not one of them.

I carn't remember last time my train stopped on approuch to Leeds. Been stopped more coming into Birmingham, Kings X, York, Wolverhamton, then at Leeds.

Hmm, I get stopped at the approaches almost every time, whether it be waiting a platform or waiting for other movements. In fact I'm on 2J22 which is held at L3637 as I type.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Well i don't see how the station can be full, loads of platform space when i was there ar rush hour last. Money should be spent on Birmingham New Street not Leeds. Yes Leeds is busy but not full not by a long way. I would say Manchester picc see's more trains that Leeds and its coping fine and it has less platforms.

There are lot of station in more need of investment. Leeds is not one of them.

I carn't remember last time my train stopped on approuch to Leeds. Been stopped more coming into Birmingham, Kings X, York, Wolverhamton, then at Leeds.

I get the train to Leeds from Newark and Derby on a regular basis and the train inevitably has to wait outside Leeds City

 

[Bayum]

Ditto.

Nearly all the trains from the south wait at Whitehall Junction on the approach, and usually follow yellows into the station. However, it's when you get problems with the Manchester route that you worry, after doubling up on platform 16, the trains are then diverted onto the other platforms, which in turn causes problems. Annoying when you are coming back off a 9 hour train journey!!

 

[LilLoaf]

National express trains tend to be early arriving into Leeds station. Therefore they will get stopped before arriving into the station to wait for the booked slot. If a train is late it may also wait before going into the station for a platform.

I should have been more clear in the 1st post i made, most trains arriving in Leeds that i have been on are on time, and therefore do not get stopped bacause the booked path into the station is available. On some trains i have been like a National Express service the train has been early and therefore have had to wait outside the station. This does not mean the station is full just that the allocated path is not available.

As i check the live departure boards now there is not train expected late into Leeds except those that have been late at some other point in the journey.

 

[gordonthemoron]

well I've been ontime with XC and had to wait and been early with NXEC and waited so long we arrived late

 

[paul1609]

I cant really see how Leeds Station is full. Compare utilisation with somewhere like East Croydon and it should be at around 25% of capacity.

 

[Waverley125]

Leeds is actually the most used station in England outside of London according to the most recent passenger use survey. It's not the through platforms that are full, but the bays & western approach. When you consider the western approach has 6tph Airedale & Wharfedale, 2tph on Harrogate line, 4tph on TPE, 2tph on Caldervale, 3tph to Doncaster, 2tph XC & 1tph to Sheffield, it totals 18tph, so effectivley one every 3 minutes. Leeds only has 5 bays for local/regional trains, and these form approx. 1 train every 6 minutes, more at peak times, with a need for cleaning & turnaround. it's easy to see how such a big station can be full.

 

[LilLoaf]

Making it the most used station outside of London doesn't mean its full. When i went their recently the was plenty of free platform space and there was no need to put one train in front of the other. At least 2 of the bays were free.

I agree with paul1609.

 

[1D53]

The point is that two bays very often aren't free. Its down to more than just plaform capacity, its more to do with the capacity of the entrance/exit lines.

 

[Donny Dave]

Making it the most used station outside of London doesn't mean its full. When i went their recently the was plenty of free platform space and there was no need to put one train in front of the other. At least 2 of the bays were free.

I agree with paul1609.

Just because there appears to be plenty of platform space, doen't mean there is plenty of capacity ....

A common occurence is a local train in 1 of the through platforms that is ready for departure, but a through train to the North (usually XC) is running a couple of minutes late, this has to use the line in between the platform, then cross over behind, this then blocks the local for a few minutes, and when it does depart, it's usually holding up something else thats waiting to enter the station. This keeps on happening through out the day.

East Croyden isn't really combarable to Leeds, as most services there are through trains, where as at Leeds, you get terminating trains that need to cross several lines to get in, then cross several lines on leaving.