Leeds, Bradford, Huddersfield, Wakefield

[Donny Dave]

"What about Lincoln-Retford-Sheffield-New Mills Central-Manchester
Perhaps not the fastest service if calling at all the local Hope Valley stations but could be a very useful through link from a city like Lincoln which has a very poor long distance train service."

The middle part of this service is operated to SYPTE specification. The PTE require that the service from Kiveton goes to Meadowhall which is why it was once linked with Sheffield - Huddersfield ( and proved very unreliable) and now it is linked to the Sheffield - Doncaster stoppers.

It seems a bit strange when the journey between Kiveton Bridge and Meadowhall is about the same by train or bus (36 mins vs 41 mins), yet from Kiveton Bridge to Dore is 53 mins by train or 1hr 11m by bus.

I think that SYPTE are wrong here, as there is several links to Meadowhall from Kiveton, yet heading west of Sheffield, you spend half the time waiting for another connecting service.

 

[Nym]

Its been talked about, doing the tunnels too.

IIRC one reason against it was that it'd slow down the existing TPE services. At the moment the two tracks are slewed across a "four track wide" trackbed, meaning they have the best possible curves (etc). Building four tracks would mean a tighter alignment, which would slow the main Manchester - Leeds services down. I'm not saying this is a good/bad thing, just that its been mentioned as a reason not to.

IMHO four tracking the Diggle route would be better than building the SELRAP line, as there is clear demand for more TPE services through the "core" transpennine route

I could be canted over a tad more and would mean more reliable TPE journies, it could also be sped up in quite a lot of other places to compansate. I don't have the baseline docs to hand but IIRC a lot of it is 55mph or less.

 

[northofthesand]

The Harrogate line is a strange one, it kind of suffers the same issues as the Selby line especially in the peak, VERY busy Horsforth to Leeds and then steady to Harrogate and then goes with the peak (busy from Harrogate to York in morning and vice versa in afternoon)

The 0652 service from York can get screwed by East Coast as the Harrogate - Kings Cross is not the most reliable and it can often be found turning back passengers at Horsforth and beyond and thats a 4 car 150 set (you can't physically use anything longer due to platform lengths). But for the middle of the day 2 cars will oft suffice and would make the job of catching the Horsforth to Burley Park / Headingley Fare dod, I mean passengers a lot easier

As for the 3 car 158s being used incorrectly I agree with that, there are services they are intended for which they are needed for, 1641 from Leeds (ex Blackpool) to York is horrendous and thats a 2 car but very managable with 3 car, its one of my least favourites to work, but great for playing passenger tetris.

I would catch the Blackpool-York 158 from Preston-Leeds on a Monday
a couple of Years back and the amount of People left stood on the Platform on Stations West of Leeds sometimes was amazing.got in to Leeds around 9ish so I'd guess there would be plenty of Offices with empty Seats

 

[Anvil1984]

That would be the 0841 (usually about 0844) arrival into Leeds, one I take out of Leeds to York (this thread is almost turning into my speciallist subject), its amazing how many people come off that one on a morning, usually full and standing from Halifax from sounds of things. 3 car as well

 

[175001]

The peaks in and out of Leeds that we Victoria crews work are at times full and standing with 3-car 158's! Worst ones come to mind are the 0658 MCV-LDS via Brighouse and 1737 LDS-MCV via Halifax. These pick or drop a lot off from Tod!

 

[Saxonia]

Of course, what doesn't help at Leeds is the platform layout, coupled to lazy/unknowing passengers - 3 car units leave with the back doorway absolutely rammed, with the guard often struggling to get on the train, whilst the country end of the unit is relatively peaceful in comparison, & whoever signed off platform 11 in its present state, with a Bradford bound train's rear doors right at the bottom of the stairs ought to be shot - it is an absolute nightmare at times to get a train away SAFELY from platform 11B, & it IS an accident waiting to happen - as many as possible of the peak services for the Calder Valley should leave from platforms 9, 11C/D, 12C/D, but most certainly NOT 11B - there is no point whatsoever in having 3 car units on these services when the majority of the excess patronage is piled into one (rear) carriage.

 

[175001]

Agreed! At least when we go off C/D, we know we can get on

 

[yorksrob]

Of course, what doesn't help at Leeds is the platform layout, coupled to lazy/unknowing passengers - 3 car units leave with the back doorway absolutely rammed, with the guard often struggling to get on the train, whilst the country end of the unit is relatively peaceful in comparison, & whoever signed off platform 11 in its present state, with a Bradford bound train's rear doors right at the bottom of the stairs ought to be shot - it is an absolute nightmare at times to get a train away SAFELY from platform 11B, & it IS an accident waiting to happen - as many as possible of the peak services for the Calder Valley should leave from platforms 9, 11C/D, 12C/D, but most certainly NOT 11B - there is no point whatsoever in having 3 car units on these services when the majority of the excess patronage is piled into one (rear) carriage.

Probably true, although I don't see what else they could have done with that island platform (9-11) without completely changing the whole layout. TBH the steps down suffer from the same problem of limited width.

 

[martinsh]

OK. I was in Huddersfield earlier today, and made some observations of this service.

First of all, I think some of the posters should check the current timetable. The service runs Wakefield - Huddersfield - Halifax - Bradford - Leeds. It doesn't (currently) do Leeds - Selby as well. that is served by a unit off the Calder Valley.

Anyway, I saw the westbound service in Huddersfield. It was a 3 car 144. Although it said Leeds on the blinds, all station indicators and announcements referred to it as going to Bramley.

Also, on the same platform as it was the stopper service to Manchester Victoria - so it obviously wouldn't take much tinkering with timetables to revert to the pattern being

Wakefield - Huddersfield - Stalybridge - Victoria
and
Huddersfield- Halifax - Bradford - Leeds

 

[Welshman]

OK. I was in Huddersfield earlier today, and made some observations of this service.

First of all, I think some of the posters should check the current timetable. The service runs Wakefield - Huddersfield - Halifax - Bradford - Leeds. It doesn't (currently) do Leeds - Selby as well. that is served by a unit off the Calder Valley.

Anyway, I saw the westbound service in Huddersfield. It was a 3 car 144. Although it said Leeds on the blinds, all station indicators and announcements referred to it as going to Bramley.

Also, on the same platform as it was the stopper service to Manchester Victoria - so it obviously wouldn't take much tinkering with timetables to revert to the pattern being

Wakefield - Huddersfield - Stalybridge - Victoria
and
Huddersfield- Halifax - Bradford - Leeds

But the anti-clockwise version of the Grand Tour starts from Selby, thus linking it in with the Calder Valley diagrams, and creating the aforementioned problems.

 

[Sapphire Blue]

OK. I was in Huddersfield earlier today, and made some observations of this service.

First of all, I think some of the posters should check the current timetable. The service runs Wakefield - Huddersfield - Halifax - Bradford - Leeds. It doesn't (currently) do Leeds - Selby as well. that is served by a unit off the Calder Valley.

Anyway, I saw the westbound service in Huddersfield. It was a 3 car 144. Although it said Leeds on the blinds, all station indicators and announcements referred to it as going to Bramley.

Also, on the same platform as it was the stopper service to Manchester Victoria - so it obviously wouldn't take much tinkering with timetables to revert to the pattern being

Wakefield - Huddersfield - Stalybridge - Victoria
and
Huddersfield- Halifax - Bradford - Leeds

The announcements say Bramley to try to prevent passengers boarding for Leeds.

 

[142094]

The announcements say Bramley to try to prevent passengers boarding for Leeds.

Same reason for the Harrogate line trains being advertised on the boards as for Burley Park and Poppleton. Although you still do get people who see the blind and get on for a nice long scenic trip.

 

[Anvil1984]

First of all, I think some of the posters should check the current timetable. The service runs Wakefield - Huddersfield - Halifax - Bradford - Leeds. It doesn't (currently) do Leeds - Selby as well. that is served by a unit off the Calder Valley.

I think a certain poster should read the previous post where I stated what the actual interworking is as I am someone who works both the Leeds - Selby and Leeds - Man Vic parts of the inter-working. Interworking cant be merely picked up off a timetable you know.

Once again the units run Man Vic stopper via Bradford to Leeds, Leeds to Man Vic semi fast and semi fast return to Selby, then Grand Tour all way to Wakefield then Grand Tour back to Leeds, then stopper vic Bradford to Man Vic

 

[tbtc]

I think a certain poster should read the previous post where I stated what the actual interworking is as I am someone who works both the Leeds - Selby and Leeds - Man Vic parts of the inter-working. Interworking cant be merely picked up off a timetable you know.

Once again the units run Man Vic stopper via Bradford to Leeds, Leeds to Man Vic semi fast and semi fast return to Selby, then Grand Tour all way to Wakefield then Grand Tour back to Leeds, then stopper vic Bradford to Man Vic

Anvil, I have to say that I hadn't appreciated just how complicated the interworking was before this thread, so thank you for explaining it. Do staff work on the whole "round trip" or do they swap at Leeds (etc)?

 

[Anvil1984]

Depends on which crew, Leeds sign and do all of it in one go on some routes, York only sign the Selby - Halifax portion so always swap at Leeds (same reason as why we also swap at Leeds on services York - Blackpool, there be dragons if we turn right at Hall Royd), not sure about my Huddersfield colleagues, IIRC they sign Leeds -Wakefield via Huddersfield but not Selby

 

[martinsh]

I think a certain poster should read the previous post where I stated what the actual interworking is as I am someone who works both the Leeds - Selby and Leeds - Man Vic parts of the inter-working. Interworking cant be merely picked up off a timetable you know.

Once again the units run Man Vic stopper via Bradford to Leeds, Leeds to Man Vic semi fast and semi fast return to Selby, then Grand Tour all way to Wakefield then Grand Tour back to Leeds, then stopper vic Bradford to Man Vic

OK, I admit I didn't look at the reverse journeys in the timetable.

Seems ridiculously complicated diagramming to me

 

[tbtc]

there be dragons if we turn right at Hall Royd

Brilliant