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Leaving Gbrf for passenger (bounty compo)

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crebbs1

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Hopefully it doesn’t happen, but if a TOC lost say 50% of passengers would they keep all the drivers?
The fact that HS2 is still plodding along currently, makes it look fairly certain that drivers will be ok, where do you think the drivers for HS2 will come from….most likely poached from TOCS & FOCS.

Also as stated above, most TOCS are already massively short staffed.
 
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NorthernTech

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Leaving your job under a contract agreement whereby you would have to pay £x when you leave is a great threat or retention tool, especially for those FOC companies that get ‘used’ for training then the driver leaves for a more cushty position nearer home as and when it suits. But, regardless of it being a legal contract, whether the company would spend the time and money to pursue it afterwards is another thing. You may have to leave to move house away from the area, it may be someone at work making your life uncomfortable etc…but whether they could state categorically you went against contract and got the money back would be another thing. Im sure GBRf wanted a massive figure at the start, what did they state it was Carl98k?
 

Class2ldn

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The circumstances behind leaving may play a big part as to whether they pursue you or not. I'm sure when I was at my first toc it was around 20k to start and went down in increments for 3 years , be interested to know what gbrf want
 

43066

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They can, you’re clearly in breach of contract if you choose to leave. It’s no different to any other contract, be it rent, mobile phone ect. Ultimately it’s down to the individual to decide if they want to risk being chased. Also I’m sure it would harm future career prospects, especially in the railway.

Well, no. You’re talking nonsense now. It’s not as simple as that, stop pretending that it is.

It’s called a contract for a reason. Out of internet, how many drivers do you actually know that have left, while in contract and not paid anything back?

I don’t need a lecture on the finer points of contracts, thanks. I do know a fair few who haven’t paid anything back. That’s your own fault for joining a freight operator.

Enjoy being spare next week all week with 12 hour movement.

Someone responded about a guy that left during this period. His old TOC told his new TOC he was in breech of contract so they rescinded the job due to this, and his old TOC wouldn’t take him back.

That’s sounds like a lie… Can you tell us his name?
 

Carl98k

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Well, no. You’re talking nonsense now. It’s not as simple as that, stop pretending that it is.



I don’t need a lecture on the finer points of contracts, thanks. I do know a fair few who haven’t paid anything back. That’s your own fault for joining a freight operator.

Enjoy being spare next week all week with 12 hour movement.



That’s sounds like a lie… Can you tell us his name?
Talking nonsense? You’re either in breech of contract or not. Many guys in my current industry have fallen foul of this. They’ve sought legal advice and been told the same. I struggle to see why the railway would be any different.

For a start I wasn’t taking to you in the first place, and secondly I’m not giving a lecture about contracts. It’s also horses for courses, I’d much rather have a variety of work than do the same route day in day out. Not sure what you’re getting at with enjoy your week being spare.

Use the search function and find it yourself.
 

66701GBRF

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Well, no. You’re talking nonsense now. It’s not as simple as that, stop pretending that it is.



I don’t need a lecture on the finer points of contracts, thanks. I do know a fair few who haven’t paid anything back. That’s your own fault for joining a freight operator.

Enjoy being spare next week all week with 12 hour movement.



That’s sounds like a lie… Can you tell us his name?

Not sure what nonsense you believe they are talking about. What is signed at GBRf is called a "learning contract" and GB will indeed come after you for the costs dictated in said contract. Whether that be RO for 3 years or TM for 5 years. That maybe different for passenger but that is not what this thread is about. I've seen it done on both grades, a driver who was going to leave for another company has now had to stay through threat of legal action from the company.

As for freight being secure. I'm not so sure. One of the major ports is striking all next week and that will have a significant impact in the future.
 

saracen

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I wouldn't recommend migrating to a passenger TOC at this time.
That's a weird thing to say given you based it on job security and routes.

The economy is in for an absolute hammering. Freight will be the one that feels it the most, it always has.

Erosion of terms and conditions, tupe, redundancy...all of which have affected the freight sector, which is exactly why I got out. For job security...

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Hi all,

Just wondered whether anyone has left Gbrf within 3 years of starting and had to pay/not pay the training bounty that’s inp place?
GBRF will pursue the training repayment and ASLEF have stated only this month they will not contest on behalf of the driver as it's a contract.
 

NorthernTech

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Not sure what nonsense you believe they are talking about. What is signed at GBRf is called a "learning contract" and GB will indeed come after you for the costs dictated in said contract. Whether that be RO for 3 years or TM for 5 years. That maybe different for passenger but that is not what this thread is about. I've seen it done on both grades, a driver who was going to leave for another company has now had to stay through threat of legal action from the company.

As for freight being secure. I'm not so sure. One of the major ports is striking all next week and that will have a significant impact in the future.
Am I right in thinking they state £65k for a driver?
 

43066

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Talking nonsense? You’re either in breech of contract or not. Many guys in my current industry have fallen foul of this. They’ve sought legal advice and been told the same. I struggle to see why the railway would be any different.

For a start I wasn’t taking to you in the first place, and secondly I’m not giving a lecture about contracts. It’s also horses for courses, I’d much rather have a variety of work than do the same route day in day out. Not sure what you’re getting at with enjoy your week being spare.

Use the search function and find it yourself.

Apologies, I worded that a bit strongly (yes I’d just rolled in from the pub), but it’s not the same as being in breach of a mobile phone contract (eg I’d be interested to know what happens if you don’t successfully pass out or get sacked one year in). The way it was historically done by TOCs it was essentially unenforceable. However I agree that, if you’re now being made to sign a separate training agreement alongside your contract, perhaps they’ve wised up.

There is more variety with freight work albeit that comes with less predictability/worse shifts (there are exceptions eg Freightliner Intermodal is quite TOC like with regularly diagrammed container trains from what’s been said on here). The arrangement at some is that you’ll know which days you’re working, but won’t know what you’re doing (ie earlies, lates, nights) until the week before.

Those who do it seem to love it, especially enthusiasts who enjoy manual coupling, playing around with locos etc. As you say it’s horses for courses really.
 
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Driver0202

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I enjoy working for GB would never go back to a TOC unless I had to, Tip is if you don’t want bothered on your days off turn your phone off! But then again freight is either for you or it’s not.
 

Carl98k

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Apologies, I worded that a bit strongly (yes I’d just rolled in from the pub), but it’s not the same as being in breach of a mobile phone contract (eg I’d be interested to know what happens if you don’t successfully pass out or get sacked one year in). The way it was historically done by TOCs it was essentially unenforceable. However I agree that, if you’re now being made to sign a separate training agreement alongside your contract, perhaps they’ve wised up.

There is more variety with freight work albeit that comes with less predictability/worse shifts (there are exceptions eg Freightliner Intermodal is quite TOC like with regularly diagrammed container trains from what’s been said on here). The arrangement at some is that you’ll know which days you’re working, but won’t know what you’re doing (ie earlies, lates, nights) until the week before.

Those who do it seem to love it, especially enthusiasts who enjoy manual coupling, playing around with locos etc. As you say it’s horses for courses really.
No problem. The reason I was saying you’re liable is because the fuel company I work for operate the scheme. Many have tried to get away with it and have failed. The drivers have sought legal advice and have been told they’re in breech of contract.

I totally agree that it’s not as easy to plan your life around the shifts, and of course more night work. But from what I’m told the depot I’ll be at is mainly Monday to Friday, we shall see though.

I had tried to get a start with a TOC but nothing materialised so applied for GB. But after doing more research I don’t think I’d do freight. I’m currently a petrol tanker driver and don’t do distance work, that would drive me mad. So I’d be quite happy to get out the cab for a bit.
 

Class2ldn

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Mu
No problem. The reason I was saying you’re liable is because the fuel company I work for operate the scheme. Many have tried to get away with it and have failed. The drivers have sought legal advice and have been told they’re in breech of contract.

I totally agree that it’s not as easy to plan your life around the shifts, and of course more night work. But from what I’m told the depot I’ll be at is mainly Monday to Friday, we shall see though.

I had tried to get a start with a TOC but nothing materialised so applied for GB. But after doing more research I don’t think I’d do freight. I’m currently a petrol tanker driver and don’t do distance work, that would drive me mad. So I’d be quite happy to get out the cab for a bit.
Must be in some decent money doing that?
 

NorthernTech

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No problem. The reason I was saying you’re liable is because the fuel company I work for operate the scheme. Many have tried to get away with it and have failed. The drivers have sought legal advice and have been told they’re in breech of contract.

I totally agree that it’s not as easy to plan your life around the shifts, and of course more night work. But from what I’m told the depot I’ll be at is mainly Monday to Friday, we shall see though.

I had tried to get a start with a TOC but nothing materialised so applied for GB. But after doing more research I don’t think I’d do freight. I’m currently a petrol tanker driver and don’t do distance work, that would drive me mad. So I’d be quite happy to get out the cab for a bit.
You decided not to go to GBRf at Peak now then??
 

Carl98k

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You decided not to go to GBRf at Peak now then??
Yes I start on the 19th September. I’ve just realised my phone auto corrected to not doing freight, I meant wouldn’t do passenger work.

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Mu

Must be in some decent money doing that?
It’s not bad mate, still in the 40% tax bracket but there’s definitely a down turn in work, and it’s only going to get worse.
 

Class2ldn

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Hmm I used to drive hgvs and I do miss the driving but its definitely a job thats going down the pan a bit. Got a mate on fuel but not on the level of hoyer etc.
Thought it was supposed to be one of the best jobs going in the industry , didn't think many people left, maybe its a sign of the times.
 

NorthernTech

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Yes I start on the 19th September. I’ve just realised my phone auto corrected to not doing freight, I meant wouldn’t do passenger work.

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It’s not bad mate, still in the 40% tax bracket but there’s definitely a down turn in work, and it’s only going to get worse.
Ahh ok, cool. Those new full cab sims they have should be pretty great to learn on.
 

Carl98k

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Ahh ok, cool. Those new full cab sims they have should be pretty great to learn on.
Should be good mate, I’m looking forward to it

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Hmm I used to drive hgvs and I do miss the driving but its definitely a job thats going down the pan a bit. Got a mate on fuel but not on the level of hoyer etc.
Thought it was supposed to be one of the best jobs going in the industry , didn't think many people left, maybe its a sign of the times.
Did you take a guess at Hoyer? To be fair mate it’s a good job. The issue is it’s a dying industry, although some refuse to accept it. Cars a getting more economical, people working from home and buying hybrid/electric cars. I’ve got another 30 years work left in me so I very much doubt I’d be able to retire on the fuel.
 

Driver0202

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Should be good mate, I’m looking forward to it
They are very very good for sims , best I’ve seen, but never like the real thing .. different story when you feel the couplings stretch in real life , doing a hill start with 2000ton on. The China clay is fun , you feel it sloshing around behind you.
 

Starmill

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I think it's useful to remember that any lost training cost at TOCs (which are still substantial costs) is ultimately going to be footed by public funding. As a result the chances of them expending lots of time and effort on recovering the money are fairly low.

At the FOCz, it has been identified that one thing negatively affecting their profitability was drivers undergoing training at their cost and then leaving in short order. As a result it's considerably more likely that they would try to design contracts so that trainees will stay around. Or, if they don't stay around, that they pay reasonable compensation for the cost of training their replacement.
 

Carl98k

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They are very very good for sims , best I’ve seen, but never like the real thing .. different story when you feel the couplings stretch in real life , doing a hill start with 2000ton on. The China clay is fun , you feel it sloshing around behind you.
Yes I bet mate, can’t beat the real thing. Where do they do China clay?
 

Starmill

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I totally agree that it’s not as easy to plan your life around the shifts, and of course more night work. But from what I’m told the depot I’ll be at is mainly Monday to Friday, we shall see though.
Nearly all of the FOC's customers want delivery or dispatch on a business day (so not Saturday / Sunday / Bank Holiday) so there's definitely something in that. Obviously there are some important exceptions to that where they will take goods on weekends! The other thing is that lots of FOC resources are actually used by Network Rail at weekends for maintenance and other engineering work. Obviously I don't know if your depot will have any work where you're on a Network Rail job, but if it doesn't then it's likely to be correct that you're mainly in Monday - Friday.
 

Carl98k

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Nearly all of the FOC's customers want delivery or dispatch on a business day (so not Saturday / Sunday / Bank Holiday) so there's definitely something in that. Obviously there are some important exceptions to that where they will take goods on weekends! The other thing is that lots of FOC resources are actually used by Network Rail at weekends for maintenance and other engineering work. Obviously I don't know if your depot will have any work where you're on a Network Rail job, but if it doesn't then it's likely to be correct that you're mainly in Monday - Friday.
Thank you for letting me know, it’s can be a complete minefield as a new starter.

So I’m lead to believe Peak do some work for HST 2, not sure what days that covers as I assume it’s a new line?
 

Class2ldn

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Should be good mate, I’m looking forward to it

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Did you take a guess at Hoyer? To be fair mate it’s a good job. The issue is it’s a dying industry, although some refuse to accept it. Cars a getting more economical, people working from home and buying hybrid/electric cars. I’ve got another 30 years work left in me so I very much doubt I’d be able to retire on the fuel.
Oh I wasn't assuming you actually worked for them just i know they are one of the biggest players lol.
I think that's what my mate wants to get on eventually, he's done his adr now so hopefully will help him a bit.
I've seen them recruit a fair bit lately so people must be jumping ship a bit now.
Hope the new job works out.
 

43066

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I totally agree that it’s not as easy to plan your life around the shifts, and of course more night work. But from what I’m told the depot I’ll be at is mainly Monday to Friday, we shall see though.

I had tried to get a start with a TOC but nothing materialised so applied for GB. But after doing more research I don’t think I’d do freight. I’m currently a petrol tanker driver and don’t do distance work, that would drive me mad. So I’d be quite happy to get out the cab for a bit.

Definitely go with whoever you can get a key with. It’ll be possible to move later if you want to. All the best with the new job, based on what you’ve said I suspect it’ll be an excellent move for you. :)
 

Carl98k

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Oh I wasn't assuming you actually worked for them just i know they are one of the biggest players lol.
I think that's what my mate wants to get on eventually, he's done his adr now so hopefully will help him a bit.
I've seen them recruit a fair bit lately so people must be jumping ship a bit now.
Hope the new job works out.
Haha it thought good guess. It’s a good way to get a start in the industry. Don’t listen to the haters, it’s like any job, follow the rules and you’ll be fine. The BPU contract is the better to get. Where is he located? Thanks mate

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Definitely go with whoever you can get a key with. It’ll be possible to move later if you want to. All the best with the new job, based on what you’ve said I suspect it’ll be an excellent move for you. :)
That was my thinking from day one. I’m was living in Devon so if sntbung came up
This way with GB then I’d (potentially) ask to move once I’d completed my time in Peak. Thank you mate, really appreciate it.
 

Class2ldn

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Haha it thought good guess. It’s a good way to get a start in the industry. Don’t listen to the haters, it’s like any job, follow the rules and you’ll be fine. The BPU contract is the better to get. Where is he located? Thanks mate

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He lives in Sussex, I know they run out of pease pottage or used to. Think he applied once at Thurrock? But they wanted him to have his adr first i think which he's now got and works for a small fuel firm in Sussex
 
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