Leatherhead terminators

[Downlander]

In the late 1990s and early 2000s, Connex and then South Central Trains operated a 2 t.p.h. stopper from Victoria to Leatherhead. Curiously these services were diagramed to return to Ashtead empty and restart in passenger service to Victoria from there.

Does anyone know why? Was the crossover at Leatherhead not cleared for passenger-carrying services for some reason?

 

[30907]

In the late 1990s and early 2000s, Connex and then South Central Trains operated a 2 t.p.h. stopper from Victoria to Leatherhead. Curiously these services were diagramed to return to Ashtead empty and restart in passenger service to Victoria from there.

Does anyone know why? Was the crossover at Leatherhead not cleared for passenger-carrying services for some reason?

I imagine so, as trains hadn't routinely terminated there before, and presumably the timetable didn't allow for a down to up shunt.

 

[Undaunted]

My recollection is that there was no main aspect signal for the move and the crossover had no facing point lock, which would have been necessary for passengers to be able to use the train for the move from the down line to the up line.

Interesting that the decision was made to proceed with an ‘unbalanced’ service, which could have been avoided by terminating the down train at Ashstead and running it empty to and from Leatherhead. But given that there was no reason to prohibit the train running in service to Leatherhead, it perhaps should be seen as providing additional down services to Leatherhead, rather than fewer up services.

 

[Flange Squeal]

My recollection is that there was no main aspect signal for the move and the crossover had no facing point lock, which would have been necessary for passengers to be able to use the train for the move from the down line to the up line.

Interesting that the decision was made to proceed with an ‘unbalanced’ service, which could have been avoided by terminating the down train at Ashstead and running it empty to and from Leatherhead. But given that there was no reason to prohibit the train running in service to Leatherhead, it perhaps should be seen as providing additional down services to Leatherhead, rather than fewer up services.

From memory the Leatherhead services were operated by 455s/456s and were driver only, so I guess terminating at Ashtead would also have added time for the train to be checked clear of passengers which would have required a member of staff to undertake this duty at Ashtead (I don't think it is a station that had a member of platform staff other than ticket office, and probably not deemed an expense worth having?). Running to Leatherhead therefore has the benefit of not only being another service there, as you point out, but also the removal of that waiting time at Ashtead after arrival to check the train, on top of the time then spent at Leatherhead for the driver to change ends. The time after arrival at Leatherhead for the driver to change ends can therefore double up as the time spent checking the train is clear of passengers, rather than doing that at Ashtead. In addition to your correct recollection about it just being a position light for the crossover at the London end of the down platform, there was also no driver only operation equipment at that end of the platform either.

 

[Undaunted]

Good points - I hadn’t thought about the DOO angle or the convenience of using the change ends time at Leatherhead to check the train. I guess this was a job for the driver? I used Leatherhead in the late 1990s and I don’t recall seeing staff on the platform (and definitely not at Ashstead).

 

[devon_belle]

I have been doing some unrelated reading and found some Network Rail instructions (e.g. Page 33) for various possessions between Leatherhead Jnc and Warnham, which suggests the crossover at Leatherhead can be used to start Up passenger trains from the Down platform:

AT LEATHERHEAD, DOWN TRAINS ARE AUTHORISED TO TERMINATE AND START BACK AS UP TRAINS FROM THE DOWN PLATFORM LINE.A HANDSIGNALLER WILL NOT BE PROVIDED AND DRIVERS ARE AUTHORISED TO PROCEED WHEN POSITION LIGHT SIGNAL W1198 IS CLEARED

Please correct me if I am misinterpreting this information.

 

[30907]

I have been doing some unrelated reading and found some Network Rail instructions (e.g. Page 33) for various possessions between Leatherhead Jnc and Warnham, which suggests the crossover at Leatherhead can be used to start Up passenger trains from the Down platform:

Please correct me if I am misinterpreting this information.

It looks as though SN have chosen to terminate at Epsom tonight; only one Up passenger train runs during the possession period, any other would have been ECS.

 

[TEW]

It's not uncommon for SWR to terminate at Leatherhead during engineering works, and they do sometimes then restart towards London from the down platform.
It depends on timings though, and they may also shunt to the up platform, or run to Effingham Junction to reverse instead. Of the 3 SWR services unable to run to Dorking this evening, 1 terminates at Leatherhead then runs ECS via Effingham Junction to restart from the up platform, 1 runs in service to Effingham Junction to run ECS to Clapham Yard and 1 terminates at Leatherhead to run directly back to Wimbledon Park from the down platform.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

It is quite likely that things are different these days to when the OP was referring to in their first post. Things change, albeit less frequently of late due to no one wanting to pay for any infrastructure / operational improvements - but don't get me started.....