dj_mikey_k
Member
All line rover 14 Day (14R) is the first Ranger/Rover in the ATW star menu.
ALR is the Aintree Liverpool Rover.
ALR is the Aintree Liverpool Rover.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Least sold product?
- Thread starter Frontera2
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
On the subject of a 1st ALR, (7 or 14 day), does anybody know where a copy of the full definitive validity can be obatained/downloaded from? The details shown on the NRE pages define the trains on which they are valid but there seems to be no official definition of the ticket's stus, i.e. is it an open first (limited only by the times at certain locations), or a first season (similarly time limited) or a special leisure ticket with limitations like regional/area offers, or something else. This is particularly relevant with the 1st class ticket as it affects normally included extras like lounges, on board refreshements etc.. It seems to be an area where some passenger-facing employees make the rules up to suit their opinion of the passenger they are dealing with so an official printed version of the ticket's validity and status would be useful to plan with and then carry in the event of a dispute.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The what? Never heard of that one.
you tend to get 3 different reactions from conductors with an ALR:
a) they have no idea what it is, spend 5 minutes looking at it, then give up and let you go
b) they have no idea what it is, so they just nod it through
c) they know exactly what it is, and are obviously enthusiasts, so they start a conversation with you about it, asking where youve been etc
I once had my ticket incorrectly printed on blank stock which had a number of boxes for dates to be written in on day of travel (Manchester Piccadilly, it was hard enough getting the ticket issued at all at the time). One conductor had me date a box.
I said something like "it's not necessary, it's valid for seven days".
He said something like "yes it is, I've been doing this job for fifteen years so I know what I'm talking about"
I chose not to reply with "no it isn't, I've been travelling for twenty years so I know what I'm talking about". Instead I just filled in a box with the date and he was happy, and nobody else made the same request later in the week or queried why I'd completed just one box.
I made a mental note to ensure that next time I bought one the correct blank ticket stock was used, which it fortunately was.
I buy Lakes Day Rangers most weekends, never had any problems with guards on ticket office staff. Occasionally one of the bus drivers tries to argue but I've never been told to buy a new ticket, some of them said to me that they hadn't seen one before, maybe most people just use the rail portion? In do remember a few weeks ago they were doing a ticket survey (unsure on name, where it was an outside contractor instead of the guard) on the Windermere branch and the person conducting the survey said they had never seen one and didn't know how to input in their tablet. Did it as a Cumbria Day Ranger instead.
You get a few. my trainer for tickets and stuff never mentioned them, but we did spend a few hours on transport tokens, which I've never seen in my 10 years. I knew about them, so was not phased, but some were.
Some German guy had one of those on a Scotrail service a couple of months back.
Haha, love it!
158820
Member
- Joined
- 1 Nov 2017
- Messages
- 242
I spent a week last summer on a Britrail Pass nearly all guard/ticket checkers just nodded or said ok after a quick glance. One very precise ticket checker working Plymouth/Penzance told me I should have had the pass dated (this was on the 2nd last day of my travels.) She also was very dubious of he ticket office stamp on it because the clerk at Llandundo junction hadn't change the date on the flanker and made a bit of a mess of it. Stil
Last September when travelling on a hand written Sail Rail ticket, I was very surprised when the guard on a dogbox service Crewe to Derby told me he sees a good few paper Sail Rail tickets.
Last September when travelling on a hand written Sail Rail ticket, I was very surprised when the guard on a dogbox service Crewe to Derby told me he sees a good few paper Sail Rail tickets.
dj_mikey_k
Member
U-Bahnfreund
Member
Not Glasgow Central - Partick or Anniesland - Glasgow Queen Street (the diesel line) by any chance?
KevinTurvey
Member
- Joined
- 9 Oct 2016
- Messages
- 262
It would be interesting to know how many rovers are actually sold. BR and Regional Railways used to promote them until possibly the early nineties? They then seemed to disappear. I guess low ticket sales might be down to lack of promotion, and why 'normal people' don't use them.
The old Northern operator used to promote them quite heavily with train/station posters and leaflets, and the new Northern still produce leaflets. I see very little promotion elsewhere.
They used to cheap too - I have a rover leaflet from 1987, all these are the 7 day prices. (although there were some big price increases around 1991) North West £24; Coast & Peaks £18; Heart of England £18; East Midlands £21; Wales £24; South West £30; Scotland £42. With a railcard most of these were about £2 a day!
The 1st class 14 day ALR was £315, which was probably about 1.5 - 2 weeks wages.
The old Northern operator used to promote them quite heavily with train/station posters and leaflets, and the new Northern still produce leaflets. I see very little promotion elsewhere.
They used to cheap too - I have a rover leaflet from 1987, all these are the 7 day prices. (although there were some big price increases around 1991) North West £24; Coast & Peaks £18; Heart of England £18; East Midlands £21; Wales £24; South West £30; Scotland £42. With a railcard most of these were about £2 a day!
The 1st class 14 day ALR was £315, which was probably about 1.5 - 2 weeks wages.
I'd be interested to know how many excess-over-distances are sold in advance, as part of a planed journey.
Only used it once. A "more senior" ticket clerk offered it as a best value solution on a slightly circular journey come some 15-20 years ago (Stockport-Wolverhapton-Euston-Stockport: Advance SPT to WVH, Offpk rtn WVH-EUS, plus excess back to SPT which allows one not to even pass through WVH on the way back). All a bit moot as Virgin then cancelled enough trains that the SPT-WVH leg was pointless in that I missed the funeral, and SPT staff duly gave a written travel authorisation to go direct to EUS - quite a bit of fun when that sheaf of paper was inspected by some staff...
Only used it once. A "more senior" ticket clerk offered it as a best value solution on a slightly circular journey come some 15-20 years ago (Stockport-Wolverhapton-Euston-Stockport: Advance SPT to WVH, Offpk rtn WVH-EUS, plus excess back to SPT which allows one not to even pass through WVH on the way back). All a bit moot as Virgin then cancelled enough trains that the SPT-WVH leg was pointless in that I missed the funeral, and SPT staff duly gave a written travel authorisation to go direct to EUS - quite a bit of fun when that sheaf of paper was inspected by some staff...
Absolutely no need to get rid of rovers.
As for the Network Railcard a few thoughts spring to mind:
- it was introduced by Network South East to fill capacity on Off peak trains that otherwise carted fresh air around between the peaks.
- Rail fares in the south east are generally more expensive than the rest of the country, the Network Railcard brings them more into line for card holders.
- I wish the Train Operating Companies/DfT good luck if they wish to abolish the Network Railcard - a 50% increase in the cost of travel would take some justification.
The idea of merging Railcard terms and conditions has some merit however a little thought reveals some benefits of the status quo:
- Disabled Railcard holders should be able to get discount at all times. Disabled people are often the most disadvantaged in Society and we should do everything possible to help them with their travel costs.
- The 16-25 Railcard allows discount at all times subject to a £12 minimum fare. On certain routes (eg Stevenage-London Terminals) it makes sense for a 16-25 Railcard holder to buy daily discounted tickets rather than an annual season ticket. This helps younger workers with their travel at a time in their career when they might not be earning a huge wage and helps them to spread the cost by buying daily.
- In the Network Railcard area a Senior Railcard cannot be used to purchase discounted tickets until the Off Peak Day Return ticket is valid. This is sensible as it many workers travelling into London by train at that age will probably be on a higher salary.
What I do think is missing is a National Railcard that anyone can purchase. A defecto one exists for £160 in the enlarged Gold Card area but I do think it should be available nationally.
Gareth Marston
Established Member
The 12 minimum fare on the 16 to 25 works the other way away from the high London fares. Whilst someone under 26 may be able to find a job where they can afford to spend £90 a week or so on rail fares to central London from Stevenage the same is not the case for someone from say Wellington Shropshire looking to work in central Birmingham as they can't find jobs with the same pay.
I understand your point but not everyone working in London earns a high wage. Many, many people have very ordinary jobs for very ordinary pay.
Wellington-Birmingham and Stevenage-London are similar distances yet these asinine ticket price from Stevenage is double that from Wellington.
What the £12 minimum fare does is give some relief to younger people who make expensive journeys to work by rail. It’s certainly not perfect, but I’d rather have what we have than a blanket ban on the 16-25 Railcard before 0930.
Dai Corner
Established Member
- Joined
- 20 Jul 2015
- Messages
- 6,990
Does the 16-25 railcard exist for commercial or social reasons? If it's for social reasons perhaps it should be available to people of any age on low incomes (and not to high earning younger people).
I
I've no idea. You make a good point about a railcard for people on low incomes. Who would administer the scheme and how much would it cost?
I've no idea. You make a good point about a railcard for people on low incomes. Who would administer the scheme and how much would it cost?
Dai Corner
Established Member
- Joined
- 20 Jul 2015
- Messages
- 6,990
Perhaps it could be given to anyone on Universal Credit and issued with the paperwork for that by the DSS? I've No idea on what to charge the holder or the DSS for it though.
There’s a Jobcentre Plus railcard for those out of work but it takes a while to be eligible
philthetube
Established Member
- Joined
- 5 Jan 2016
- Messages
- 4,181
The problem with this is that it is another reason to stay on universal credit, I am in favour of a railcard for the low paid but struggle to see a fair way to offer one without discouraging people from working. Thresholds are things which need to be avoided.
Please explain? This sounds like it might actually be of benefit to me!
EDIT: Never mind; just looked up the gold card area, and it's yet again only the south of England. As you were :-/
I buy a Crawley AAA Haywards Heath <-> London Zones 2-6 weekly season as (a) I vary which station I travel to in the evening depending on the time. and (b) it is cheaper than the ticket just from Crawley.
Chris M
Member
And not that many JCP staff can actually issue them. It's also not possible to use it when buying tickets from a TVM and they wont always open gates so there are frustrations to using one.
- Status