Late train made me miss bus to hotel

[lawried123]

I'm afraid this is incorrect. That may well be what they want the case to be but it doesn't mean that it is.

I had a ticket from Paddington to Twyford some time ago and when I arrived at Paddington there was a serious signal failure which they said was going to last last until the end of traffic. They were advising that there no more trains and people should go to Waterloo and travel by SWR. As this was their advice I did so and travelled to Wokingham and got a taxi up to Twyford.
When I sent my taxi receipt in for a refund, they refused to refund that saying they didn't cover for consequential losses.
So they certainly don't cover getting you to your ticketed destination.

Lawrie

 

[Bletchleyite]

I had a ticket from Paddington to Twyford some time ago and when I arrived at Paddington there was a serious signal failure which they said was going to last last until the end of traffic. They were advising that there no more trains and people should go to Waterloo and travel by SWR. As this was their advice I did so and travelled to Wokingham and got a taxi up to Twyford.
When I sent my taxi receipt in for a refund, they refused to refund that saying they didn't cover for consequential losses.
So they certainly don't cover getting you to your ticketed destination.

That is not a consequential loss, but the original loss. Sounds like someone saw "taxi" and rejected it out of hand, and pushing it further would have resulted in it being paid.

However, did you, at the time, say "I need to go to Twyford, and SWR doesn't go there, how do I get there?" In that case they may have told you to do something different. It's quite common for acceptance to be provided to/from different stations on different lines (e.g. Aylesbury for MK) when something goes wrong without onward travel provided from there, as very often people can get to/from there themselves, e.g. by driving to Aylesbury instead of MKC in the morning and so making the day's trip from/to there, or by a friend or family member collecting. This is on top of the basic provision that would be made e.g. RRBs, or that they might have provided you with a railway arranged shared taxi from Reading where that TOC's staff were on hand.

 

[Starmill]

I had a ticket from Paddington to Twyford some time ago and when I arrived at Paddington there was a serious signal failure which they said was going to last last until the end of traffic. They were advising that there no more trains and people should go to Waterloo and travel by SWR. As this was their advice I did so and travelled to Wokingham and got a taxi up to Twyford.
When I sent my taxi receipt in for a refund, they refused to refund that saying they didn't cover for consequential losses.
So they certainly don't cover getting you to your ticketed destination.

Lawrie

In this case, they either made a mistake or thought you'd let them off without paying. In your case there's a direct loss, not a consequential one. The taxi in the first instance should have been arranged by GWR, and if this were not possible, paid for by you and claimed back.

 

[Wolfie]

Not even on a 'PlusBus' type ticket?

A Plusbus ticket entitles you to use all of the available bus services in a particular area for a particular period of time. Possession of one doesn't guarantee that you will be able to catch one particular bus service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A Plusbus ticket entitles you to use all of the available bus services in a particular area for a particular period of time. Possession of one doesn't guarantee that you will be able to catch one particular bus service.

It doesn't, but if one arrives so late there would be no scope to use it at all, the contract for its purchase is frustrated and so it should be refunded.

That doesn't however imply provision of alternative transport per-se.

 

[nanstallon]

No reply to my polite request to reconsider their refusal to pay the taxi fare, and it now looks like they've gone back on their acceptance of my claim for a refund of the train fare. Perhaps to teach me a lesson?

 

[Wolfie]

No reply to my polite request to reconsider their refusal to pay the taxi fare, and it now looks like they've gone back on their acceptance of my claim for a refund of the train fare. Perhaps to teach me a lesson?

Sue them in the County Court small claims channel. As a litigant in person select a venue convenient to you. If that happens to be inconvenient to the TOC or their legal team that's too bad. Others have advised that it's Delay Repay or other legal routes. If they've reneged on Delay Repay then claim the whole lot - ticket plus taxi via the other route.

 

[AlterEgo]

No reply to my polite request to reconsider their refusal to pay the taxi fare, and it now looks like they've gone back on their acceptance of my claim for a refund of the train fare. Perhaps to teach me a lesson?

Why have they gone back on it? What is their reasoning? I don’t think we’ve even been provided any journey details in this thread.

Unless there was some exceptional and avoidable failure by the railway then the taxi fare to your hotel is on you I’m afraid, part of life’s rich tapestry.

 

[Wolfie]

Why have they gone back on it? What is their reasoning? I don’t think we’ve even been provided any journey details in this thread.

Unless there was some exceptional and avoidable failure by the railway then the taxi fare to your hotel is on you I’m afraid, part of life’s rich tapestry.

There have been posts both on this and other threads suggesting that the changes between NRCOC and NRCOT mean that your advice may well be inaccurate.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Nov 2021 ==

In this case, they either made a mistake or thought you'd let them off without paying. In your case there's a direct loss, not a consequential one. The taxi in the first instance should have been arranged by GWR, and if this were not possible, paid for by you and claimed back.

Agreed

 

[AlterEgo]

There have been posts both on this and other threads suggesting that the changes between NRCOC and NRCOT mean that your advice may well be inaccurate.

Inclined to think that as the OP has given no details of his journey that it’s just a normal crapshoot, and the advice posted earlier wouldn’t apply. The cause of the delay is important as are the finer details.

It’s 13 quid, it’s the sort of occasional frustrating expense you just budget for as a Plan B.

Nothing at all posted in the thread by the OP makes me think it’s a CRA or other type of claim.

 

[WesternLancer]

No reply to my polite request to reconsider their refusal to pay the taxi fare, and it now looks like they've gone back on their acceptance of my claim for a refund of the train fare. Perhaps to teach me a lesson?

As OP I think you need to share with us the details of the journey that was 3 hours late at your destination - without that it is much harder to give much in the way of meaningful advice.

However, i would have said that Delay Repay was a contractual benefit due to you if your train was late and the reasons for the delay met with the terms of Delay Repay - so I see no logical reason why it would be withdrawn, unless for reasons to do with them investigating your claim more deeply they decided you were not in fact due it. I note you have not shared their reply to you.

It is fine if you do not want to share details of the journey and delayed train(s) involved as you may have any number of reasons for that, but it leaves me for one coming to the conclusion that you have perhaps not really told the full story in your posts. My apols if that is the wrong conclusion to have drawn.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Delay Repay is contractual if you actually make the journey. You can't claim it if you mitigated the loss yourself using alternative transport. I think this is silly, as claiming it and spending it on a taxi seems sensible on the face of it, but this is not the rule, and I suspect with e-tickets the railway will be looking out for this more than it used to.

 

[AlterEgo]

Delay Repay is contractual if you actually make the journey. You can't claim it if you mitigated the loss yourself using alternative transport. I think this is silly, as claiming it and spending it on a taxi seems sensible on the face of it, but this is not the rule, and I suspect with e-tickets the railway will be looking out for this more than it used to.

But there are two journeys here. The OP was delivered to the destination station, late. There is no question that delay repay certainly should be paid.

He then wants additional compensation because his (non-rail) public transport connection was missed and took a taxi in lieu of waiting a long time for another bus.

 

[Wolfie]

But there are two journeys here. The OP was delivered to the destination station, late. There is no question that delay repay certainly should be paid.

He then wants additional compensation because his (non-rail) public transport connection was missed and took a taxi in lieu of waiting a long time for another bus.

There are actually three. The two that you mentioned and then the additional completely separate case introduced by lawreid123 which also attracted comment. I suspect that there may be an element of being at cross purposes in posts.

For the record l am, despite my earlier comments based on the comments of others, inclined to agree your assessment of the first two. In the past l have had to take a taxi (and suck up the cost) as l missed the last bus due to a delayed train.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Honestly, regardless of if the railway had to pay for the taxi or not, I'd have hoped they would given the OP had already endured a 3 hour delay. Its these kind of customer service failures that often paint the railway in a bad light, even if technically the decision was correct according to the rulebook. I've had GWR put me in a taxi after being over two hours late and thus missing a last bus before when they didn't need to, and I've had TfW recently stick me in a taxi from Cardiff Central to my destination when they could very well have told me to make my way closer by rail and try to sort a taxi from there (but that would have turned a 3 hour delay into a 4 hour one so they agreed to just pay for a taxi from Cardiff instead as to not further delay me). It's called good customer service and is the kind of thing that will make people who are unsure about rail travel trust the railway (especially if you live far enough away from a railhead station that you need a bus or similar to get there - otherwise people are going to just drive instead if they can't trust that the railway will be able to get them home).

Now, I do wonder if OP would have had a more favorable outcome had they asked staff about it beforehand (rather than taking it on themselves to jump in a taxi and try to claim it back) as especially in the moment some members of staff (actually most I think to be fair) can often be very helpful even when they don't need to be.

 

[Wolfie]

Honestly, regardless of if the railway had to pay for the taxi or not, I'd have hoped they would given the OP had already endured a 3 hour delay. Its these kind of customer service failures that often paint the railway in a bad light, even if technically the decision was correct according to the rulebook. I've had GWR put me in a taxi after being over two hours late and thus missing a last bus before when they didn't need to, and I've had TfW recently stick me in a taxi from Cardiff Central to my destination when they could very well have told me to make my way closer by rail and try to sort a taxi from there (but that would have turned a 3 hour delay into a 4 hour one so they agreed to just pay for a taxi from Cardiff instead as to not further delay me). It's called good customer service and is the kind of thing that will make people who are unsure about rail travel trust the railway (especially if you live far enough away from a railhead station that you need a bus or similar to get there - otherwise people are going to just drive instead if they can't trust that the railway will be able to get them home).

Now, I do wonder if OP would have had a more favorable outcome had they asked staff about it beforehand (rather than taking it on themselves to jump in a taxi and try to claim it back) as especially in the moment some members of staff (actually most I think to be fair) can often be very helpful even when they don't need to be.

Very fair and balanced. I can be critical of the railway but do believe that the vast majority of staff will do their best to help when things go wrong.

 

[30907]

No reply to my polite request to reconsider their refusal to pay the taxi fare, and it now looks like they've gone back on their acceptance of my claim for a refund of the train fare. Perhaps to teach me a lesson?

You have had correspondence (1) accepting and now (2) rejecting your claim? On what grounds?

 

[Wolfie]

You have had correspondence (1) accepting and now (2) rejecting your claim? On what grounds?

Good question

 

[nanstallon]

Happy to say that following discussions, they have agreed to pay the delay-repay refund of train ticket, but won't pay for the taxi. Shabby, but if I can't enforce a legal claim, no point in going on about it!

 

[westcoaster]

Happy to say that following discussions, they have agreed to pay the delay-repay refund of train ticket, but won't pay for the taxi. Shabby, but if I can't enforce a legal claim, no point in going on about it!

Personally the way I look at it is.

if the refund (delay repay) is more than the cost of the taxi, than you are up. I've lost nothing but gained some money back.

Say for example
train ticket £50
bus £5
total £55

due to the delay
train ticket £50
taxi £13
total £63
delay repay -£50
total £13 (up by £42)

We're any staff present to speak to, before ordering a taxi of your own back.

Are you able to say the reason for the long delay, as it quite unusual for delays of this length.

 

[nanstallon]

Personally the way I look at it is.

if the refund (delay repay) is more than the cost of the taxi, than you are up. I've lost nothing but gained some money back.

Say for example
train ticket £50
bus £5
total £55

due to the delay
train ticket £50
taxi £13
total £63
delay repay -£50
total £13 (up by £42)

We're any staff present to speak to, before ordering a taxi of your own back.

Are you able to say the reason for the long delay, as it quite unusual for delays of this length.

Apart from any bus being free for me (bus pass), that is a way of looking at it. I ended up (once I've received the refund) +£8.05 (delay repay £21.05 - taxi £13), so not a great rate of pay; about £2.65 per hour of my time! Anyway, worse things happen at sea.

 

[Titfield]

Personally the way I look at it is.

if the refund (delay repay) is more than the cost of the taxi, than you are up. I've lost nothing but gained some money back.

Say for example
train ticket £50
bus £5
total £55

due to the delay
train ticket £50
taxi £13
total £63
delay repay -£50
total £13 (up by £42)

We're any staff present to speak to, before ordering a taxi of your own back.

Are you able to say the reason for the long delay, as it quite unusual for delays of this length.

As indeed I said in post20 albeit with different figures.

 

[westcoaster]

As indeed I said in post20 albeit with different figures.

sorry I had not seen this .

 

[Titfield]

sorry I had not seen this .

Thats fine. These threads can become repetitive with the best of intentions.

 

[miklcct]

Personally the way I look at it is.

if the refund (delay repay) is more than the cost of the taxi, than you are up. I've lost nothing but gained some money back.

Say for example
train ticket £50
bus £5
total £55

due to the delay
train ticket £50
taxi £13
total £63
delay repay -£50
total £13 (up by £42)

We're any staff present to speak to, before ordering a taxi of your own back.

Are you able to say the reason for the long delay, as it quite unusual for delays of this length.

It can also be the other way round. For example:

Train ticket £6
Bus £2
Total £8

Due to the delay
Train ticket £6
Taxi £13
Delay Repay £-6
Total £13 (lost £5)

And most of my trips are like this rather than your example!

 

[Titfield]

It can also be the other way round. For example:

Train ticket £6
Bus £2
Total £8

Due to the delay
Train ticket £6
Taxi £13
Delay Repay £-6
Total £13 (lost £5)

And most of my trips are like this rather than your example!

£2 is a very short bus ride in Bournemouth!

I am not sure that many businesses would like to be in a position where the consequential loss exceeds the sum received by them in the first place.

This argument is one advanced by low cost carriers where the EU rules on compensation for delays provide for compensation often many multiples of the cost of the fare paid.

 

[FenMan]

This argument is one advanced by low cost carriers where the EU rules on compensation for delays provide for compensation often many multiples of the cost of the fare paid.

And the rules in the UK too. To date, there has been no divergence.

So, nothing to do with the EU, but everything to do with possible future domestic legislation that may or may not depart from existing passenger rights.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

I was stranded on Totnes station in August when the lorry struck the bridge outside Plymouth and all the trains were cancelled.

After discussing the situation with the member of staff on the station, I had to take a taxi to Exeter St David's and then a train on to South Wales. As I was some two hours late getting home, I claimed Delay Repay and also for the cost of the taxi, and received them both.

 

[185143]

I was stranded on Totnes station in August when the lorry struck the bridge outside Plymouth and all the trains were cancelled.

After discussing the situation with the member of staff on the station, I had to take a taxi to Exeter St David's and then a train on to South Wales. As I was some two hours late getting home, I claimed Delay Repay and also for the cost of the taxi, and received them both.

In fairness to the railway on this one, I seem to recall a great deal of difficulty in organising replacement transport for that incident. So not overly unusual for the advice to be "sort yourself out and we'll cough up" in that case. Especially if you've been told to do it by staff.

Reminds me of an argument I had with Northern Rail once, I was delayed on the Calder Valley due to poor rail conditions and was set to miss my train up the S&C to Carlisle. I opted to bail at Bradford and go that way, but needed a taxi between the stations. It was less than the minimum connection time between the two and I'd have missed it by walking for sure. The fare was about £5 which I attempted to claim back from Northern. They initially refused saying they weren't liable for consequential loss. I replied essentially politely pointing out that I wasn't responsible for thinking outside the box and saving them a perfectly valid delay Repay claim or expensive taxi ride. They sent me one of the complimentary day passes they used to issue, "as a goodwill gesture", I think with two days validity. Couldn't complain at all about that really.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

In fairness to the railway on this one, I seem to recall a great deal of difficulty in organising replacement transport for that incident. So not overly unusual for the advice to be "sort yourself out and we'll cough up" in that case. Especially if you've been told to do it by staff.

Yes, that's really what happened. It was a bit fraught at the time, as there were a lot of people looking for transport, but it all ended (for me - I realise that others may have had more problems) as well as could be expected in the circumstances.