Late night ticket conundrum

[D1537]

A technically hypothetical question but based on a real experience last night.

I arrive at the station late in the evening to catch a train with TOC A to my destination. I have a 45 minute wait for it. There is a later train with TOC B, 30 mins later.

Before I buy my ticket, I notice a train from TOC B also going to my destination is running very late and will arrive 30 mins before my TOC A train.

The online sales won't allow me to buy a ticket for this train as it's technically already left. If I buy a ticket for the train I arrived for that's no use either because it's a different TOC. I *could* spend at extra £10 and buy a flexible off peak single for TOC B's last train BUT that train departs after midnight and the ticket will be dated for the next day and therefore won't be valid on the late running train.

What can I do to catch the late running one?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've had this issue and ended up buying an Any Permitted ticket selecting TOC A's train. It is a bit annoying as I paid more than I could have if I could have selected a dedicated ticket for TOC B, but the time saving was worth it and there wasn't enough time to go and speak to the guard. Is there not an interavailable ticket on this journey? There must be very few flows where there isn't.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

A technically hypothetical question but based on a real experience last night.

What was the actual journey in question? Algebra is so confusing!

 

[D1537]

OK, it's York to Northallerton, and I've just looked at single tickets for tonight. Flexible tickets on LNER (TOC B) are restriction M6 and valid on LNER and TPE, but flexible tickets on TPE (TOC A) are restriction I3 and TPE only.

Since I couldn't have bought an LNER flex for the late running train, the LNER flex for the last train is dated the following day, and the TPE flex is still TPE only, I'm stuck.

In reality I already had a TPE-only ticket and the 22:39 was cancelled so went to the pub for a late pint and got the 23:50. Wasn't in a rush.

 

[Haywain]

In reality I already had a TPE-only ticket and the 22:39 was cancelled so went to the pub for a late pint and got the 23:50. Wasn't in a rush.

I would have just boarded the LNER train, you'd have been sold a ticket if your TPE ticket wasn't accepted, which it most likely would have been due to the cancellation.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Be right in saying that the final four scheduled train services from York to Northallerton last night were the late-running 2231 LNER (departed 2321), the 2239 TPE (cancelled), the 2350 TPE (departed on time) and the 0016 LNER (departed 0032). If you travelled on the 2350 TPE with a route "TPE only" ticket aren't you now eligible for maybe 100% Delay Repay, perhaps depending on when exactly you bought the ticket? Otherwise, wouldn't an interavailable route "Any Permitted" ticket bought on Wednesday evening still be valid on the 0016 LNER on Thursday morning?

 

[D1537]

Be right in saying that the final four scheduled train services from York to Northallerton last night were the late-running 2231 LNER (departed 2321), the 2239 TPE (cancelled), the 2350 TPE (departed on time) and the 0016 LNER (departed 0032). If you travelled on the 2350 TPE with a route "TPE only" ticket aren't you now eligible for maybe 100% Delay Repay, perhaps depending on when exactly you bought the ticket? Otherwise, wouldn't an interavailable route "Any Permitted" ticket bought on Wednesday evening still be valid on the 0016 LNER on Thursday morning?

Yes I've done the TPE delay repay, but my query was more about the inability of a random punter to buy a ticket for the late running 1N15 (22:31). Ironically I was expecting to get the 23:50 anyway but the gig I was at finished earlier than I'd thought.

 

[Bletchleyite]

OK, it's York to Northallerton, and I've just looked at single tickets for tonight. Flexible tickets on LNER (TOC B) are restriction M6 and valid on LNER and TPE, but flexible tickets on TPE (TOC A) are restriction I3 and TPE only.

Since I couldn't have bought an LNER flex for the late running train, the LNER flex for the last train is dated the following day, and the TPE flex is still TPE only, I'm stuck.

You aren't. You pick the TPE train and you pick the interavailable ticket on it. You then use that interavailable ticket on the LNER service.

 

[D1537]

You aren't. You pick the TPE train and you pick the interavailable ticket on it. You then use that interavailable ticket on the LNER service.

I can't see an interavailable ticket for the TPE train, only LNER. TPE flex ticket restrictions...

 

[Segedunum]

I can't see an interavailable ticket for the TPE train, only LNER. TPE flex ticket restrictions...

In the LNER app you tap "view all tickets" and select the other Off-Peak Day Single for £17.50.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can't see an interavailable ticket for the TPE train, only LNER. TPE flex ticket restrictions...

What retailer are you using? Retailers should offer you the full set of tickets valid on the service which includes the Any Permitted ticket.

If I look for tonight on Trainline it is offered. If your retailer isn't offering a full range of valid tickets on each train find a better one!

 

[D1537]

In the LNER app you tap "view all tickets" and select the other Off-Peak Day Single for £17.50.

Aha! That's the answer I was after. Good to know for future reference. God knows how regular punters are supposed to negotiate that maze though.

 

[philthetube]

As I understand it, if the ticket you require is not available from the station you may pay on the train, photograph the ticket machine to cover yourself though.

The experts will be able to confirm or refute this.

 

[Haywain]

As I understand it, if the ticket you require is not available from the station you may pay on the train, photograph the ticket machine to cover yourself though.

The experts will be able to confirm or refute this.

The required ticket would have been available from the TVM in the same way it was available from the LNER app.

 

[D1537]

The required ticket would have been available from the TVM in the same way it was available from the LNER app.

Indeed, but my point is - if I couldn't find it easily, how many regular passengers could? Of course in normal times you'd just go to the travel centre or find a number of staff, but good luck with either of those late at night.

Let's be clear - you're asking someone who wants to board a late running LNER service to choose a service from a completely different TOC and then find the relevant ticket...

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is a flaw of planner based TVMs that they take services off sale past their scheduled departure time even if late. This has come up as an issue with delayed last trains before, but to me would count as a case to just board because no ticket was on sale at all.

 

[D1537]

It is a flaw of planner based TVMs that they take services off sale past their scheduled departure time even if late. This has come up as an issue with delayed last trains before, but to me would count as a case to just board because no ticket was on sale at all.

It does seem odd that the apps can tell you if the train is late, but can't cope with the train not having arrived at your station yet for that season. I presume this is because otherwise you could have bought a ticket for 1N15 last night after you knew it was late and then claimed delay repay, but that would have been the case anyway if I bought a ticket for it before 22:31 (at which point I would have known it was late), so how does the system deal with that?

Indeed, theoretically last night I could have arrived at York at 23:45 for the 23:50 and still claimed delay repay by claiming I turned up for the 22:39...

 

[sheff1]

What can I do to catch the late running one?

Buy the Any Permitted ticket from one of the TVMs.

 

[D1537]

Buy the Any Permitted ticket from one of the TVMs.

Indeed, but a regular customer would (a) have to know that and (b) unintuitively know to choose the 23:50 with a different TOC.

I wouldn't blame them for going "sod it" and just getting on anyway. I bet no-one is going to check a 9-car unit in that 18 minute journey.