Latchmere Jn to Victoria

[showchaser]

I see on RealTimeTrains that it is possible to use Latchmere Junction to go via Longhedge Jn, Stewarts Lane Jn, Grosvenor Bridge Jn, over the Bridge and into Victoria.

Out of interest, are there any platform restrictions on this route apart from the usual demand of pathing?

And, secondarily, is there a reason why the journey out from platform 2 at Victoria to Pouparts and Clapham Junction seems to take so long—over 20 minutes?

I am imagining a service which would go down the West London Line, go into Victoria, and then reverse out to hit the Brighton Main Line fast. I am sure the pathing discussion with the ORR would be magnificently interesting. However—can it be done?

Such a service would avoid the wide gap at Clapham Junction platform 17, as well as the slow route thereafter.

 

[JonathanH]

Out of interest, are there any platform restrictions on this route apart from the usual demand of pathing?

A look at https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/vtb1 suggests you can only get to platform 15, and nothing higher, from Stewarts Lane.

 

[showchaser]

It would seem so, however all of the diesel runs which take this route seem to head into platform 2.

 

[JonathanH]

It would seem so, however all of the diesel runs which take this route seem to head into platform 2.

Yes, that is because platform 2 is the 'excursion platform' with timetabled slots for such trains to occupy it.

 

[showchaser]

Thank you so much. It also seems to be an extremely long platform, almost 400m. I read that the Southeastern platforms are considered slightly underused compared to the Southern ones. Is that true?

And—in general—would a signaller for Victoria go nuts about the idea of a train crawling in and reversing in the space of a few minutes during rushhour?

 

[30907]

https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/vir1#T_VICTRIA
It is perfectly possible for trains to use the low level lines in the Stewarts Lane area (the above link shows the full layout).

Thank you so much. It also seems to be an extremely long platform, almost 400m.

Historically, platforms 1-2 were used for the Night Ferry because they could be segregated for customs and immigration purposes. P2 was and is used for VIP specials. This makes them ideal for special trains, and the arched roof of the "Chatham" side means diesel and steam can be tolerated. P1 could accommodate the maximum length, P1 is just (!) 14 cars.

I read that the Southeastern platforms are considered slightly underused compared to the Southern ones. Is that true?

Yes

And—in general—would a signaller for Victoria go nuts about the idea of a train crawling in and reversing in the space of a few minutes during rushhour?

Yes. You would also have (on the northbound trip) to cross from the Up Fast to the Down Slow which really messes up even the offpeak timetable.

Even with a decent run via Longhedge Junction, your suggestion would require a good 15min extra journey time compared with the direct route; this is probably slower than calling all stations to East Croydon as at present.

 

[showchaser]

How interesting—thanks! I found this service which seems to be able to make it to Acton Wells Jn in 40 minutes from Victoria. Could that be improved upon?

On the way northbound, one could imagine just dropping the Victoria reversal and going direct via Clapham Junction to Imperial Wharf.

In terms of the normal route directly via Clapham Junction, in the 90s the 1S76 was apparently able to a Gatwick Airport to Kensington Olympia run during the morning each day in 36(!) minutes. How was that possible?

 

[JonathanH]

In terms of the normal route directly via Clapham Junction, in the 90s the 1S76 was apparently able to a Gatwick Airport to Kensington Olympia run during the morning each day in 36(!) minutes. How was that possible?

Fairly easily. Trains are timetabled 23 minutes from Gatwick Airport to Balham via the Quarry Line with a stop at East Croydon. Then over the fast to slow crossover west of Balham, through platform 16 at Clapham Junction, and on to Kensington Olympia.

Fewer passenger services and stops between Clapham Junction and Kensington Olympia back then.

Crossing trains at Balham isn't very convenient though.

 

[brad465]

Thank you so much. It also seems to be an extremely long platform, almost 400m. I read that the Southeastern platforms are considered slightly underused compared to the Southern ones. Is that true?

P2 has a junction providing access to at least 2 higher platforms going over the top part, such that 2 signals exist along P2. I believe a 12-car can easily fit in the platform behind the first signal but specials that are longer presumably are allowed the full length if needed.

With some odd variations, the Southeastern platforms are usually allocated as follows:

P1: Reserve
P2: Specials and reserve
P3: Orpington services
P4: Ashford via Maidstone services
P5: Ramsgate/Dover Priory via Chatham services
P6: Gillingham stoppers via Denmark Hill
P7: Dartford/Gravesend via Bexleyheath
P8: Reserve, sometimes used by Southern services

Platforms 1&2, when not being used for passenger services, often are where ECS moves terminate/reverse, particularly if moving between depots and/or Blackfriars.

 

[30907]

P2 has a junction providing access to at least 2 higher platforms going over the top part, such that 2 signals exist along P2. I believe a 12-car can easily fit in the platform behind the first signal but specials that are longer presumably are allowed the full length if needed.

The crossover concerned is right at the outer end of P2 - from memory 14 cars could fit in 2 without fouling it, though that may have changed.

How interesting—thanks! I found this service which seems to be able to make it to Acton Wells Jn in 40 minutes from Victoria. Could that be improved upon?

Easily if it wasn't for all the other trains
13 min net to Latchmere Jn feels about right, which means your Victoria idea would add 20min with a prompt reversal.

On the way northbound, one could imagine just dropping the Victoria reversal and going direct via Clapham Junction to Imperial Wharf.

Quite, as at present.