Last train allowed

[crazygirl]

Okay I've googled this and failed to find the answer!

Please can someone tell me the last train allowed home on an off peak return ticket? So I'm looking to travel outwards in the evening and return very early morning and wondering if I can use the return part or need a new ticket if it counts as the following day. Travel would be out of London Victoria if this relevant.

Train company is Southern Railway but cannot find any information on the site.

 

[gordonthemoron]

surely if you do a ticket request on one of the booking engines, it will show which is the last useable train?

 

[yorkie]

The 'ticketing day' finishes at 0200 however there are some easements in place on certain routes, for example I can return from Leeds at around 0330. As we don't know where you are travelling from, or what time you are planning to travel, we can't advise whether the specific train you wish to get is valid or not, but hopefully that's enough info for you to work it out

 

[crazygirl]

Thanks yorkie

I found lots of train companies say 2.30am and one 4.30am but southern seems a secret!

Either: London Victoria to Brighton or London Victoria to Three Bridges

 

[me123]

Hi Crazygirl. Whereabouts are you travelling from? That may make a difference to the answer.

I've done a quick search on Southern's website using the trains through the night to Brighton. It suggests that the last train on which off peak tickets are valid is the 01:00 departure to Brighton. The next train at 04:00 requires you to hold an anytime ticket.

EDIT: For London-Brighton, your last train seems to be the 01:00 departure. It also seems to allow you to travel on the 02:00 service to Three Bridges.

 

[crazygirl]

Yes me123 the Brighton one does seem to be this. But confusingly I travelled with a friend once and she said we had to make the 4am Brighton train for ticket to be valid and there was no problem through barriers even though I thought strange.

Three Bridges confusing because trains continue throughout early hours.

 

[yorkie]

Maybe it is 0230 rather than 0200, I'm not sure on that. The 0400 would not normally be valid but there may be an easement on that route. The easements are not always easy to find!

 

[wintonian]

As National Rail say on their website:

Ticket validities

The ticket that you have selected may require you to travel at specific times of the day, days of the week or on a specific route. Our Journey Planner will have already taken this into account with the selection that you have made and will only have shown tickets that are valid for the selected trains.

Your ticket is associated with a ‘Validity Code' applied by the train companies and this can be viewed by clicking the link from the Journey Planner ticket terms and conditions page once you have made your selection.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/terms/guidance.html

If it comes up with it on their journey planner then it must be valid.

I always thought it was 02:30 myself but can't find where it says it at the moment.

 

[Caped Crusader]

No definate answer here yet, I always thought it was OK if you start your journey before 02:30, can't remember where I found it or if it's just heresay!

There may be a later easement on the Southern Line out of Victoria as the trains run through the night.

I will try to do some more digging for a proper answer later.

 

[wintonian]

Unless there is an easement I believe you must start your journey by 02:30 (unless overnight break of journey is allowed) and no further break of journey is allowed.

But to comment informatively we would need to know the journey being made and the type of ticket held as things do very.

 

[crazygirl]

Thank you for advice. Can't believe its not written on the terms to make this easy!

To thicken the plot, asked at Hove station and their advice was that you had to arrive at Hove before 7.15am for ticket to still be valid.

That sounds wrong even to me but member of staff advised this so made me wonder if some peculiar Hove easement now.....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

No definate answer here yet, I always thought it was OK if you start your journey before 02:30, can't remember where I found it or if it's just heresay!

There may be a later easement on the Southern Line out of Victoria as the trains run through the night.

I will try to do some more digging for a proper answer later.

Many thanks.

Yes I seem to have heard lots of heresay and wanted the definitive answer to ensure holding legal ticket.

Sorry I should have said. My priority is to leave Victoria late as possible on a return ticket if possible and then I can either go to Three Bridges, Brighton or Hove.

Hove last train is about 12, Brighton about 1 and Three Bridges hourly. Three Bridges therefore becomes my most likely option unless there is some strange rules I don't understand

 

[LMRPI]

According to the Manual off peaks are valid as below. The last Brighton train available is therefore 0400

Victoria/Gatwick Airport/Sussex Coast Night Service (Daily)
Travel is permitted on the following services to holders of the return portion of all ticket types valid the previous day. Travel is also permitted for holders of Off-Peak Day Single and the outward portion of Off-Peak Day Returns (provided the return journey does not commence before 0930).


Victoria
dep.
0005
0014
0100
0200
0300
0400

 

[me123]

It's always a worrying sign when Yorkie uses the phrase "I'm not sure on that"!

LMRPI, is that in the public domain anywhere? It would be quite worrying if it was not, it seems to be quite basic information. It would make perfect sense for those services to be valid on an off peak ticket. If indeed they are, it's also quite worrying that Southern's own journey planner won't sell you a ticket for it!

 

[island]

Just to confuse things, is this an off-peak day return ticket (CDR) or an off-peak return ticket? And does it expire on the day before you're planning to travel?

 

[crazygirl]

According to the Manual off peaks are valid as below. The last Brighton train available is therefore 0400

Thank you
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's always a worrying sign when Yorkie uses the phrase "I'm not sure on that"!

LMRPI, is that in the public domain anywhere? It would be quite worrying if it was not, it seems to be quite basic information. It would make perfect sense for those services to be valid on an off peak ticket. If indeed they are, it's also quite worrying that Southern's own journey planner won't sell you a ticket for it!

This is what has been driving me mad! I distinctly remember travelling on the 4am with a friend on her advice and there wasn't a barrier problem but I still didn't quite believe it since you can't achieve it online as you say.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just to confuse things, is this an off-peak day return ticket (CDR) or an off-peak return ticket? And does it expire on the day before you're planning to travel?

Not sure of the ticket distinction there but I'm talking about buying a return ticket to travel to Victoria in the evening and then returning early AM.

 

[krus_aragon]

Not sure of the ticket distinction there but I'm talking about buying a return ticket to travel to Victoria in the evening and then returning early AM.

That should be the Off-Peak Day Return (returning the same 'day') rather than the Off-Peak Return (return within a month).

 

[lewisf]

I've used the 0400 departure from Victoria to Brighton on a previous days off-peak day return and didn't have any problems with ticket inspectors or barriers. The clerk in the ticket office said that this would be the last service the ticket would be valid on, but I was returning on New Years Day, so I don't know if that makes any difference.

 

[island]

I've used the 0400 departure from Victoria to Brighton on a previous days off-peak day return and didn't have any problems with ticket inspectors or barriers. The clerk in the ticket office said that this would be the last service the ticket would be valid on, but I was returning on New Years Day, so I don't know if that makes any difference.

My understanding is that an off-peak day return is valid as long as you commence travel before 0230 on the day afterwards, except when you break your journey overnight, in which case you must recommence it by 1200 the next day.

Clear as mud, I know.

 

[Greenback]

How can you break an off peak day return overnight?

 

[wintonian]

From NFM07

NOTES:
Off-Peak Day Singles and
Returns, GroupSave Day
Returns: Valid for travel on
the date shown on the ticket
and until 0230 the following
day. If it is not possible to
complete the journey before
this time, travel is allowed
until 1200 the day after
travel - but no further break
of journey is allowed.

 

[Greenback]

How does that work in practice? In theory, could someone buy a day return on a route where there ar eno period returns, and then come back the following morning claiming they couldn;t complete their (return) journey the previous night?

A lot of people want to go to Swansea overnight from Llanelli, and are told to buy two singles! Indeedm when I worked in reading there were a lot of requests for overnight returns to Basingstoke, which didn;t exist either. Is this a legal loophole?

 

[wintonian]

I assume if you take Swansea - Melksham CDR £24.40 which is only possible to do in a day by leaving Swansea at 16:28 and arriving in Melksham at 19:10 and then departing at 19:47, if the train there was late you might miss the one back, though it is the TOCs responsibility to sort something out for you might choose to stay with friends or something.

That’s my thinking anyway.

 

[Greenback]

I see. It's not really a loophole then!

 

[wintonian]

The wording for period returns is:

Off-Peak Singles and the
outward portion of Off-Peak
Returns are valid for travel
on the date shown on the
ticket. Where a passenger
wishes to stop overnight or
the journey cannot be
completed within one day,
break of journey for an
overnight stay is allowed.
Where a journey does continue
into the next day, travel must
resume before 1200 and any
relevant time restrictions
apply. No further break of
journey is allowed except for
the purpose of changing
trains. Please note that break
of_journey is not permitted on
some journeys, as detailed_in
the ticket restrictions.

...wishes to... I think is the crucial difference between off-peak day returns and off-peal period returns.

 

[Scotty]

To stay overnight, do you need to have started the return journey, to be completed the next day? Or are you allowed to start the return journey the next day?

 

[wintonian]

The blurb for the return part of off-peak period returns is:

Return portions of Off-Peak
Return tickets are valid for
travel until 0230 on the day
following the last day of
validity (i.e. one calendar
month from outward journey).
If a passenger is_still
travelling at 0230, they
may stay on the train to
complete that part of the
journey but no further break
of journey is allowed and all
travel must be completed by
1200.

Remember though that this might not apply to all off-peak returns.

 

[craigy68]

... an easement exists allowing travel on the 0400 VIC-BTN, a similar local easement is in place for the 0350 BTN-VIC