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Last evenings BBC one show(ghost trains)

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merlodlliw

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Just managed to catch the programme after watching Porto on BBC HD, there was Porto again as guest on the one show, which did a piece on Parliamentary trains at the start, it sent a film crew on a Chiltern parliamentary into Paddington Station & also named a few other ghost services & explained the reason for them running, worth a look

Still on I Player


Bob
 
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dk1

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Just managed to catch the programme after watching Porto on BBC HD, there was Porto again as guest on the one show, which did a piece on Parliamentary trains at the start, it sent a film crew on a Chiltern parliamentary into Paddington Station & also named a few other ghost services & explained the reason for them running, worth a look

Still on I Player


Bob

Same old media rubbish. They trawl this one out every so often. Even though the Chiltern guy explained that it helps crew knowledge, useful diversion & is run out of peak when not needed, still the reporter said the train could be better utilised :roll:
 

fgwrich

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I thought Porto did a good job of defending them too.

He certainly did! And as usual from the one show, we had the attitude of well if know ones using the service or the line, then perhaps we should close it and stop running services that way lark -Maybe, but it's not totally down to the operators as to who opens or closes these services or lines, and the piece pretty much missed the point of who actually funds these parliamentary services (There's a rather obvious clue in the name!)

It rather reminded me of a piece in our local newspaper / rag about overcrowding, Oh how the media love to overdramatise everything! And that how the £1 Million pound upgrade of Basingstoke station should be better spent on buying extra coaches to give people a seat - After all, you buy a ticket, You should! expect to get a seat these days...:roll: :lol:

(Even though if commuters bothered to take a look at SWTs new posters around Basingstoke Station, they might actually be able to get a service with a seat!)
 

Cherry_Picker

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Same old media rubbish. They trawl this one out every so often. Even though the Chiltern guy explained that it helps crew knowledge, useful diversion & is run out of peak when not needed, still the reporter said the train could be better utilised :roll:

Did they tell him how many rail replacement bus trips between West Ruislip and Marylebone that the "ghost train" into Pad has saved over the years? Probably not because the number is far too many to count.
 

swt_passenger

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(Even though if commuters bothered to take a look at SWTs new posters around Basingstoke Station, they might actually be able to get a service with a seat!)

I hope it occured to them to put the posters where people actually stand and wait for London trains though. The one I saw was on the down side at the country end of platform 2... :roll:
 

Urban Gateline

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Can someone post a link to the programme on BBC iPlayer please? I have looked but can't seem to find it!
 

fgwrich

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I hope it occured to them to put the posters where people actually stand and wait for London trains though. The one I saw was on the down side at the country end of platform 2... :roll:

Haven't been through the station in the past week or so - so i'll check later on my way home...

Last time i looked though, they did have these posters all through the subway though - and there rather unavoidable - Bright Green for trains that have space/seats, Orange for those which may be busy, and Bright Red for those that are full and standing...I'll try and grab a photo of one next time ive got my camera with me.
 

tbtc

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Same old media rubbish. They trawl this one out every so often. Even though the Chiltern guy explained that it helps crew knowledge, useful diversion & is run out of peak when not needed, still the reporter said the train could be better utilised :roll:

The problem is that "ghost trains" or "Parliamentary services" are quite complicated to justify - there's a need to maintain staff knowledge, ensure that some lines are fit for passenger standard (even if they don't justify regular passenger service), using "off peak" resources etc - hard to get that across in a simple "soundbite" for a fast paced telly show.
 

QJ

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Quote:
Originally Posted by swt_passenger
I hope it occured to them to put the posters where people actually stand and wait for London trains though. The one I saw was on the down side at the country end of platform 2...

Haven't been through the station in the past week or so - so i'll check later on my way home...

Last time i looked though, they did have these posters all through the subway though - and there rather unavoidable - Bright Green for trains that have space/seats, Orange for those which may be busy, and Bright Red for those that are full and standing...I'll try and grab a photo of one next time ive got my camera with me.

Waste of money printing them. The Basingstoke sheep still get on the first train for their destination even when it is announced, like this morning, that the next London train is full and standing but there is another with plenty of seats five minutes later off the same platform.
 

PaulLothian

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One of the services discussed (the 17:15 Kyle of Lochalsh to Elgin) is actually a timetabled Monday to Saturday service, combining the last train of the day out of Kyle with a useful and generally well-used mid-evening connection between Inverness and Elgin.

I was slightly surprised that this wasn't part of ScotRail's response, and couldn't understand the relevance of the response quoted. Unless there has been a big rebuild at Inverness in the last few months, you can't turn trains there - it's not a triangular layout. I rather wonder if that was the answer to a different question!

While I wouldn't always rely on Wikipedia(!) its definition in ths case is what I had always understood - "A Parliamentary train or Parly (also referred to as a ghost train) is, nowadays, a British English term for a train that operates a Parliamentary service - that is to say a token service to a given station, thus maintaining a legal fiction that either the station or, in some cases, the whole line is open, although in reality the train operating company has almost completely abandoned the station or line."

If the operator does have other genuine motives, such as route knowledge, I am not clear whether such a service really counts as a Parliamentary train at all.

Generally, this suffered from the usual sloppy journalism and inadequate research. Why spoil a good story by checking facts?

It wouldn't have been too difficult to find out how to pronounce Breich either...
 

merlodlliw

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43167

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Just watched it.

Ive never seen the through Kyle-Elgin service as a Parly and I would think that it carries plenty of passengers.

And I thought the response from the Chiltern guy was spot on, if they didnt run the service, it would surely cost more in the long run for crews do refreshers on the route prior to engineering work diversions. Clearly the person who set the questions didnt think of that.
 

transmanche

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And I thought the response from the Chiltern guy was spot on, if they didnt run the service, it would surely cost more in the long run for crews do refreshers on the route prior to engineering work diversions. Clearly the person who set the questions didnt think of that.
I suspect that the average person in the street would be surprised to learn that train drivers must know and sign for a route.
 

12CSVT

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Unless there has been a big rebuild at Inverness in the last few months, you can't turn trains there - it's not a triangular layout. I rather wonder if that was the answer to a different question!

Platform 5 can be accessed from both sides
 

ChrisCooper

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Of cource the media like to go on about services which are pointless and carrying around fresh air like these when other services are overcrowded, yet if someone decided to cancel them they would be running stories about how the poor people who use the services will not have to find alternative ways to get around.

You get the same on the buses too. One minute they go on about the money the council spends subsidising loss making services which carry fresh air around, then when the council decides to cut the funding and cancel the service they start a campaign to save it.

The media are never satisfied. The one thing I'm never quite sure on though, do they encourage people to moan and never be satisfied, or are they just reflecting what people are already like? Personally I tend to go with half and half, the media feeds peoples desires, but at the same time encourages them to grow.
 

tbtc

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Ive never seen the through Kyle-Elgin service as a Parly and I would think that it carries plenty of passengers

It's the only service which does the "other" side of the Inverness Triangle, if that makes sense, so it's only a tiny stretch of track which requires this service to run over it.

There are "busy" services which act as "Parliamentary" ones - IIRC the Fort William sleeper does a chord around Glasgow that has no regular passenger service over it.
 

tbtc

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According to Wikipedia (not the most reliable source, I know) it can't be accessed from the South in passenger service.

My Track Atlas suggests that it can, but the points are part way along the platform, so it may be that it's possible for a loco to run off that way, but there's not enough space for a 158 to fit onto the platform (between the buffers and the points) and use the line to the south (but enough room for a 158 to use the platform for the Dingwall line.

Hope that makes sense (it'd be easier if FSR ran 153s!)
 

12CSVT

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Hope that makes sense (it'd be easier if FSR ran 153s!)

It would probably make sense to use 153s on the Far North line and split at Georgemas Jct - maybe they could trade some 158s with EMT to increase capacity on the Crewe - Derby services
 

Tomnick

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I'm not sure whether the connection in question is worked by a ground frame, but I'm sure it's not signalled to passenger standards, 153 or otherwise! Will see if I can find a signalling diagram tomorrow.
 

tbtc

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It would probably make sense to use 153s on the Far North line and split at Georgemas Jct - maybe they could trade some 158s with EMT to increase capacity on the Crewe - Derby services

I've suggested FSR get some 153s in the past (a stand alone Stranraer shuttle, a winter service north of Fort William, allowing services on the Far North to "drop" coaches at Invergordon/Tain where the Inverness "travel to work" area means a higher capacity is needed than those travelling all the way to Wick)... it'll never happen, of course

(ignoring the relatively quiet central belt routes like Motherwell - Cumbernauld, which will be electrified in a few years)
 

Tomnick

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I'm not sure whether the connection in question is worked by a ground frame, but I'm sure it's not signalled to passenger standards, 153 or otherwise! Will see if I can find a signalling diagram tomorrow.
Just to confirm my earlier thoughts, the signalling notice issued at the Inverness resignalling (available on the SRS online archives - here) shows the connection between platform 5 and the south worked by 'Station GF', so certainly not suitable for regular passenger movements.
 

CaptainHaddock

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Just managed to catch the programme after watching Porto on BBC HD, there was Porto again as guest on the one show, which did a piece on Parliamentary trains at the start, it sent a film crew on a Chiltern parliamentary into Paddington Station & also named a few other ghost services & explained the reason for them running, worth a look

Still on I Player


Bob

The ghost train phenomenon was also covered in a fascinating article in the Independent last month.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/the-hunt-for-britains-ghost-trains-6279103.html
 

Cherry_Picker

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It was also on the Ken Bruce show recently too. Is some journo triple dipping on the Paddington to Gerrards Cross train story and getting paid by TV, Radio and print? Fair play to him if he is! :lol:

PS, we dont have any conductors called Mohammed as far as I am aware. Either names have been changed or quotes have been made up!
 

Rogercas

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this is an interesting Parliamentary service, Fridays only all year

This Barmouth portion I am told dates back to Lloyd George when he was Prime Minister and returned home on Fridays from London, Barmouth was his local station .

I think you will find that this is a fairly recent innovation from ATW.

In any event Lloyd George's home station was Criccieth further up the line.
 

Maxfly

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Just to confirm my earlier thoughts, the signalling notice issued at the Inverness resignalling (available on the SRS online archives - here) shows the connection between platform 5 and the south worked by 'Station GF', so certainly not suitable for regular passenger movements.

Your correct, the Kyle head along rose st and changes ends behind I397 before heading into plat 2 normally. Pic below of station GF on the panel

c81712a5.jpg
 
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