Last Euston-Manchester

[Peter0124]

Upon comparing Euston-Manchester and KX-Leeds, I notice the last trains are quite different.

22:03 for Manchester and 23:33 for Leeds, how come Leeds gets a much later last train? I remember there used to be a 23:00 EUS-MAN in 2019 but has been axed.

 

[StephenHunter]

Historically there was a KGX-Leeds sleeper service. Hangover from that?

 

[Twingo37175]

Historically there was a KGX-Leeds sleeper service. Hangover from that?

Back in the 80s there were sleepers to both. I think more in part the last Leeds train was HST formed of the last Aberdeen to London, getting it back to Neville Hill. Now the 800 simply goes to Bounds Green.

 

[Edsmith]

Upon comparing Euston-Manchester and KX-Leeds, I notice the last trains are quite different.

22:03 for Manchester and 23:33 for Leeds, how come Leeds gets a much later last train? I remember there used to be a 23:00 EUS-MAN in 2019 but has been axed.

I read somewhere that the reason for the 23.33 Kings Cross to Leeds service is because the rolling stock needs to be in Leeds for the next morning and would otherwise run empty. It's also unusual in not calling at Wakefield so it can be diverted if necessary without the need for a replacement bus service.

I'm happy to be corrected if anyone knows otherwise.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I occasionally used the 2300 Manchester to get to MKC and it was always quiet. The one day of the week when this train would genuinely be useful is Saturday, when it could be used to get back after the theatre or similar, and of course on that day the WCML shuts down early and so the last one is something like 90 minutes earlier.

 

[Bald Rick]

I read somewhere that the reason for the 23.33 Kings Cross to Leeds service is because the rolling stock needs to be in Leeds for the next morning and would otherwise run empty. It's also unusual in not calling at Wakefield so it can be diverted if necessary without the need for a replacement bus service.

I'm happy to be corrected if anyone knows otherwise.

Its also pick uo only Stevenage and set down only everywhere else.

 

[D1537]

I occasionally used the 2300 Manchester to get to MKC and it was always quiet. The one day of the week when this train would genuinely be useful is Saturday, when it could be used to get back after the theatre or similar, and of course on that day the WCML shuts down early and so the last one is something like 90 minutes earlier.

The 23:33 to Leeds doesn't run on a Saturday, either (last one is 21:40 now ... was 22:00 in the previous timetable). If you're wanting to travel any distance north from London after a show or a gig on a Saturday night in London, you're unlikely to be doing it by train regardless of which direction you're going. EMR's 22:32 to Derby is the latest, which may (just about) be OK for West End theatre but useless for anything that finishes after 10pm, which is most musical events.

 

[MichaelTrains]

I catch the 23:33 a few times a month and it usually has no more than 60/70 people on board.

 

[D1537]

I catch the 23:33 a few times a month and it usually has no more than 60/70 people on board.

Unsurprising on a weekday. The point being made is that it would be useful on a Saturday for people having a night out in London. I can remember back in the far-off days when there was a 23:30ish Euston-Brum on a Saturday that it was regularly pretty busy.

 

[backontrack]

Its also pick uo only Stevenage and set down only everywhere else.

Speaking of which, the 1818 Aberdeen-Doncaster is a bit strange — sets down only at Northallerton (at 2339), but calls normally at York.

 

[D1537]

Speaking of which, the 1818 Aberdeen-Doncaster is a bit strange — sets down only at Northallerton (at 2339), but calls normally at York.

That's because it's got 25 minutes to do Darlington-Northallerton because of occasional engineering work, therefore it arrives 15 minutes early most nights. By being set down only it can leave straight away (which means it just sits at York instead, but at least the York passengers get there 15 minutes quicker).

 

[Deerfold]

Unsurprising on a weekday. The point being made is that it would be useful on a Saturday for people having a night out in London. I can remember back in the far-off days when there was a 23:30ish Euston-Brum on a Saturday that it was regularly pretty busy.

There's a lot of routes where that's the case. Last train from London to Maidenhead is a reasonable 0030 on a Saturday night. Miss that and you've a 6 hour wait (corrected - thanks).

On a Monday night they're reasonably frequent until 0049 but then there's an 0145 and an 0335 (and in 2000 they were hourly through the night). Then the normal morning service starts just after 0500.

How much busier would they be on a Saturday?

Similarly if I want to go to a gig in Manchester my last train is 2321 during the week, meaning i can just about hear the encore at central Manchester venues. Saturday it's 2251, earlier if there's work going on.

 

[Watershed]

Miss that and you've a 10 hour wait.

I'm not sure if you're looking at a day with engineering works or something, but there's a regular 06:38 service from Paddington to Maidenhead on Sunday mornings:

Realtime Trains | 0638 London Paddington to Reading | 28/12/2025

Real-time train running information for 0638 departure from London Paddington to Reading on 28/12/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The first direct Elizabeth line services through the 'core' are around 8am:

Realtime Trains | 0744 Abbey Wood to Reading | 28/12/2025

Real-time train running information for 0744 departure from Abbey Wood to Reading on 28/12/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Taunton]

I catch the 23:33 a few times a month and it usually has no more than 60/70 people on board.

Was involved in a study a generation ago in Washington DC. It was a commuter bus service from a far suburb, four inward journeys arriving between 0730 and 0900, four outward departing between 1630 and 1800. The trip took an hour each way so it needed four vehicles.

After various suggestions an additional evening departure was added at 1915, which the first outward vehicle returned to cover. Loadings were noted and passengers were quizzed, but what surprised some (not me) was how loadings on the main services picked up as well, because a key issue had been people, often only occasionally, having to work late, and if they missed the last one at 1800 they would be stuck. So although they were rarely on it, it contributed to the overall service revenue.

Typical actual load on this last trip was about a dozen (the main ones were around 35-45), and this was thus felt not to cover its costs. A range of accountants came, looked at the narrow figures, and proposed it for withdrawal, just not listening to the experiences from its introduction. After a couple of years they won, it was cancelled, and the service overall lost about 40 daily passengers.

 

[Freightmaster]

After various suggestions an additional evening departure was added at 1915, which the first outward vehicle returned to cover. Loadings were noted and passengers were quizzed, but what surprised some (not me) was how loadings on the main services picked up as well, because a key issue had been people, often only occasionally, having to work late, and if they missed the last one at 1800 they would be stuck. So although they were rarely on it, it contributed to the overall service revenue.

Sounds like the old 'if you build it, they will come' scenario!



MARK

 

[Peter0124]

60-70 passengers on a 23:33 departure from Kings Cross is actually more than I thought. I assume most were going to the likes of Peterborough and not all the way to Leeds?

 

[185143]

60-70 passengers on a 23:33 departure from Kings Cross is actually more than I thought. I assume most were going to the likes of Peterborough and not all the way to Leeds?

I've used it back to Leeds a couple of times, and am doing so again next week.

Most seem to bail at the likes of Peterborough and Grantham, most of the rest off at Doncaster. Don't recall seeing many alighting at Leeds last time, though I was making a dash over to 16 for a TPE.

 

[_toommm_]

I've used it back to Leeds a couple of times, and am doing so again next week.

Most seem to bail at the likes of Peterborough and Grantham, most of the rest off at Doncaster. Don't recall seeing many alighting at Leeds last time, though I was making a dash over to 16 for a TPE.

The dozen or so times I've been on it (post-theatre so it's a well-timed train) it's been 20-30 people getting off at Leeds, as the barriers are almost always opened to get us out.

A Seatfrog upgrade was always great on that train as it was so quiet once the chancers got kicked out.

 

[MichaelTrains]

60-70 passengers on a 23:33 departure from Kings Cross is actually more than I thought. I assume most were going to the likes of Peterborough and not all the way to Leeds?

Based on my experience, I’d say roughly half a coachload usually gets off at Leeds.