Large denomination RTV's

[Goatboy]

Lots of people complain that passengers charter refunds are given in RTV's when the customer has paid in cash. I'm not one of these people, I genuinelly beleive that RTV's are the most appropriate form of refund if the journey was completed but heavily delayed.

However do they really need to give them out in such huge denominations?

I've just had one for a journey I completed last year. A single voucher for the entire face value of the ticket - £49.

No change is given from RTV's so essentially I cannot use it until I next need to spend £49 or more on rail travel. I'm sure in the past I've been given collections of denominations - in this case a £20, two £10 and a £9 might have been more appropriate?

Is there really no way of getting change - more RTV's would be fine - when issued with such large denomination vouchers?

 

[jimbouk1]

If you write back into the Customer Services who issued the voucher, they would probably be willing to exchange it for smaller denominations.

Unfortunately no TOCs give change when payment is made by vouchers.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Just a way of trying not pay out on their obligations. I'm also not sure why they have to have a one year expiry date either.

 

[island]

In my experience it varies by TOC. East Coast normally gives £25 vouchers and then one final voucher for the last odd bit.

In the worst case if you would use it you can put it on an Oyster card.

 

[Be3G]

No change is given from RTV's so essentially I cannot use it until I next need to spend £49 or more on rail travel. I'm sure in the past I've been given collections of denominations - in this case a £20, two £10 and a £9 might have been more appropriate?

It's probably not too much of a problem as I expect that the people who claim the most are season ticket holders – in which case, they can simply save up their vouchers until they next need to buy a season. (Bearing in mind that LU stations accept them too, so they can be used for Oyster PAYG or to buy a London travelcard.) I agree though that it wouldn't harm to make them available in smaller denominations!

 

[bb21]

Just a way of trying not pay out on their obligations. I'm also not sure why they have to have a one year expiry date either.

I don't see how they are not fulfilling their obligation.

Surely the whole point of compensation is to try and encourage the affected passenger to give the services another go, and hopefully have a better experience so that you are not turned off the idea of travelling by rail completely.

If their anticipation is that you will not return regardless then they might as well just have ignored any complaint.

In my experience it varies by TOC. East Coast normally gives £25 vouchers and then one final voucher for the last odd bit.

In the worst case if you would use it you can put it on an Oyster card.

I have received RTVs in £40 and £39 denominations from FGW before. Most other TOCs in my experience split the amount into several £25 ones with a final voucher for the remainder, or split more or less evenly into several vouchers such that none of them exceed £25 (eg. £50 into £17, £17 and £16).

 

[VauxhallandI]

I don't see how they are not fulfilling their obligation.

Surely the whole point of compensation is to try and encourage the affected passenger to give the services another go, and hopefully have a better experience so that you are not turned off the idea of travelling by rail completely.

If their anticipation is that you will not return regardless then they might as well just have ignored any complaint.



I have received RTVs in £40 and £39 denominations from FGW before. Most other TOCs in my experience split the amount into several £25 ones with a final voucher for the remainder, or split more or less evenly into several vouchers such that none of them exceed £25 (eg. £50 into £17, £17 and £16).

Well they are giving themselves every chance not to have to pay out. I for one have had expired vouchers.

Hardly well advertised that they can be put on to Oyster for example.

 

[bb21]

Well they are giving themselves every chance not to have to pay out. I for one have had expired vouchers.

Hardly well advertised that they can be put on to Oyster for example.

Was it expired when you received it or was it because you never came around to using them?

 

[VauxhallandI]

I didn't have an immediate opportunity to use them, then they are not exactly convenient to use. There should be an online version by now

 

[bb21]

They sure can be improved in the way they are administered I completely agree. Indeed Southern already allow you to exchange vouchers issued by them for cash at one of their ticket offices, and offer you the opportunity to have compensation paid out in either the paper form or as e-vouchers. So it can be done.

Most reports I have heard from people who have expiring vouchers are positive when they got in touch with the issuing TOC for an exchange of ones with a longer validity period. If yours expired not long ago, it may be worth contacting the issuing company.

 

[VauxhallandI]

They sure can be improved in the way they are administered I completely agree. Indeed Southern already allow you to exchange vouchers issued by them for cash at one of their ticket offices, and offer you the opportunity to have compensation paid out in either the paper form or as e-vouchers. So it can be done.

Most reports I have heard from people who have expiring vouchers are positive when they got in touch with the issuing TOC for an exchange of ones with a longer validity period. If yours expired not long ago, it may be worth contacting the issuing company.

Well that is positive news.

Alas I binned them, I'm sure I can't be lambasted too much for concluding there would be no mercy.

 

[orpine]

Just a way of trying not pay out on their obligations. I'm also not sure why they have to have a one year expiry date either.

I think the "12 months" is another way of getting out of paying.

I don't see how they are not fulfilling their obligation.

I read Johngills comment to be commenting on the fact they don't give change. Not giving change is hardly going to encourage people to use them.

Myself I have a voucher for £22 currently. I rarely go on trips that expensive - Birmingham is £6, and Oxford is £14. I have about 11 months left to use it.

I have had two expire before, though one was accepted just a couple of days ago anyway. Is there anyone that can be FOI'd to find out how many expire?

 

[Be3G]

I do somewhat support Johngill100 in what he's saying. We're from the same-ish part of the world (one station apart) and around here we're miles from the nearest tube station, with my nearest train station only having limited ticket office opening hours (yet frequently closed when it should be open) and DOO trains so no possibility of buying from the guard. I suppose vouchers could be used to pay at the other end but GA tend to make life a bit difficult if you need to do that even through legitimate circumstances.

 

[aleph_0]

I don't see how they are not fulfilling their obligation.

Surely the whole point of compensation is to try and encourage the affected passenger to give the services another go, and hopefully have a better experience so that you are not turned off the idea of travelling by rail completely.

If their anticipation is that you will not return regardless then they might as well just have ignored any complaint.

Well, I'd see delay repay as part of the initial contract. It's a "we'll get you there in the time we said you will, or your money back" type agreement. Which is useful part of the offering in attracting and keeping customers. Making the money back part difficult to spend annoys people, which is unhelpful.

I guess it's more the ease of use problem. I might get a voucher from a long-distance journey, but the next time I make the journey I might buy two singles, or buy an advance ticket from a cheaper quota pot, or just make a slightly shorter/cheaper journey. Buying such a ticket from a ticket office also requires finding out the availability online, then going to a ticket office and hoping the clerk can get the same ticket on their machine, and the quota hasn't been used in the meantime.

High denominations make it difficult for a typical customer to spend the vouchers, it feels like the ToC is either not thinking about the customer, or is complying with the letter rather than the spirit of the franchise obligation, to try to minimise cost.

 

[OLJR]

I'm also not sure why they have to have a one year expiry date either.

Could an operating TOC refuse to accept RTVs issued by a franchise-expired TOC?

 

[stuart]

I recently received vouchers from East Coast for a "delay repay" claim. (In sensible small denominations, to answer an earlier point.) But it did seem daft to me that, having booked online in the first place, the compensation was paid in the form of vouchers that had to be used at a booking office. Especially as my local station doesn't have a booking office, which is why I always book online.

Anyway, I wrote to EC and told them what I thought, and they have explained that there is a problem in taking rail vouchers issued by another TOC for online bookings, which I accept. However, they have also very kindly offered to exchange the vouchers for e-credits on their own system.

What surprises me is why TOCs don't do this routinely - at least as an option when submitting a repayment claim, and very possibly as the default option. Why should EC give me vouchers that can be used for anyone's services? It seems perfectly reasonable to keep it all "in the family".

In their letter, EC said that the TOCs were working on systems to allow each others' vouchers to be accepted online. This seems like a waste of effort when the mechanism to make a credit to their own e-booking system is already in place!

But full points to them for coming up with a solution to my problem which doesn't require me to make a special journey to a station equipped with booking facilities.

 

[DelayRepay]

I find it very frustrating that I can buy my season ticket online, and I can claim my compensation online, but the compensation is paid by paper voucher. I tend to save these to use to pay for a weekend away but it means a special trip and getting dirty looks from the clerk or person behind me in the queue when I hand over 10+ vouchers. The administration must be costly for the TOC too, with the costs of postage, covering letters etc.

 

[Goatboy]

I don't mind the paper vouchers its just having a £49 one means I must now wait for a £49 journey. Never mind, with XC my local TOC I'm sure a 10 minute trip down the road will qualify.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Why should EC give me vouchers that can be used for anyone's services? It seems perfectly reasonable to keep it all "in the family".

In their letter, EC said that the TOCs were working on systems to allow each others' vouchers to be accepted online. This seems like a waste of effort when the mechanism to make a credit to their own e-booking system is already in place!

The voucher is issued by the company you travelled with, not the company you bought the ticket from. I buy all my tickets through EastCoast, because of the Rewards scheme, so I would be less that impressed at First Capital Connect (for instance) trying to restrict a delay voucher to their website.

I'm sure competition law would dictate that the compensation should not be tied to one particular TOC, given that TOCs make significant commission when selling tickets.

It'd be helpful if you could type the code into any website and the voucher amount be credited to that account, although there would be security implications for that I'm sure.

I've never had a voucher for more than £20 (and I've got over £100 of them to use now) and I've never had issues with using them before the deadline.

 

[orpine]

One thing to note about over-sized vouchers that I've just remembered - I believe (if my memory is serving me well) that the Chiltern form has a checkbox where you can choose either vouchers or (if >£35) a Cheque refund.

I'm guessing none of the other TOCs do this? Or at least, no-one else has mentioned one.

Of course, I never do expensive journey on Chiltern so I never get their refunds.

 

[bb21]

Quoting my own post from earlier.

Indeed Southern already allow you to exchange vouchers issued by them for cash at one of their ticket offices, and offer you the opportunity to have compensation paid out in either the paper form or as e-vouchers. So it can be done.

 

[orpine]

Quoting my own post from earlier.

Ah, I missed that.
Except looking at the back of my voucher it says very explcitly and clearly:
"This voucher is not exchangeable for cash nor can change be given" (from XC).
And my £1 fixed-denomination voucher says that too (from Chiltern).
Do Southern vouchers not say that?

 

[bb21]

Ah, I missed that.
Except looking at the back of my voucher it says very explcitly and clearly:
"This voucher is not exchangeable for cash nor can change be given" (from XC).
And my £1 fixed-denomination voucher says that too (from Chiltern).
Do Southern vouchers not say that?

Southern-issued vouchers state that too. I believe that it is a passenger-friendly measure that Southern have implemented on their own accord.

 

[orpine]

Southern-issued vouchers state that too. I believe that it is a passenger-friendly measure that Southern have implemented on their own accord.

So let me get this right - the vouchers say they can't be exchanged for cash, but as a "passenger friendly measure" they do exchange them? Wouldn't the *actual* passenger friendly measure be to not provide conflicting messages? How is a passenger going to find out they're redeemable for actual cash when it states clearly they're *not* on the item itself.
TOC's just get more contradictory every day.

 

[bb21]

So let me get this right - the vouchers say they can't be exchanged for cash, but as a "passenger friendly measure" they do exchange them? Wouldn't the *actual* passenger friendly measure be to not provide conflicting messages? How is a passenger going to find out they're redeemable for actual cash when it states clearly they're *not* on the item itself.
TOC's just get more contradictory every day.

I know no more on this issue than you I'm afraid. I think you'll have to ask Southern that question. The vouchers are of a standard design (exceptions apply) and officially they are not supposed to be exchangeable for cash AIUI.

The information is contained on Southern's Delay Repay page, in the section titled Payment towards the bottom of the page.

 

[maniacmartin]

From Southern's website:

We no longer offer cheques, however our new National Rail Vouchers may be exchanged for cash at any Southern Ticket Office if you prefer.

I think the back contains a standard message as other TOCs use the same blank voucher stock

 

[island]

One thing to note about over-sized vouchers that I've just remembered - I believe (if my memory is serving me well) that the Chiltern form has a checkbox where you can choose either vouchers or (if >£35) a Cheque refund.

I'm guessing none of the other TOCs do this? Or at least, no-one else has mentioned one.

Of course, I never do expensive journey on Chiltern so I never get their refunds.

I believe London Midland offers a cheque option too.