Language Mangling

[DeeGee]

The more I travel abroad, on trains in countries of which I am unfamiliar with the language, the more I wonder what visitors should make of our trains.

It's not easily possible to tell what's important and what's waffle. And it needs to be in plain English.

A visitor needs possibly a list of stops, the name of the next stop - and that's it. Do people really need to be told what to do with their personal belongings on leaving the train? Of that for their safety and security, CCTV is in use on this train and on stations? They don't tell you that in every shop or office you go to, every few minutes.

 

[Deepgreen]

The more I travel abroad, on trains in countries of which I am unfamiliar with the language, the more I wonder what visitors should make of our trains.

It's not easily possible to tell what's important and what's waffle. And it needs to be in plain English.

A visitor needs possibly a list of stops, the name of the next stop - and that's it. Do people really need to be told what to do with their personal belongings on leaving the train? Of that for their safety and security, CCTV is in use on this train and on stations? They don't tell you that in every shop or office you go to, every few minutes.

Quite. The barrage of pointless announcements is self-defeating, as people deliberately (by wearing earphones) or sub-consciously (by dint of being droned at constantly) ignore them.

 

[geoffk]

Another one is "please do not board this service". "This service will be calling at...." It's a train, not a service. "An hourly service is operated" is quite OK as the reference is to the timetable.

 

[Deepgreen]

Another one is "please do not board this service". "This service will be calling at...." It's a train, not a service. "An hourly service is operated" is quite OK as the reference is to the timetable.

Several years ago I raised the issue of the verbiage used on the platform screens at Waterloo during the brief periods when there isn't actually a train at that particular platform - "There is currently no passenger train service operating from this platform. Please see timetables for information". There is so much wrong with this that it's hard to be succinct in its demolition, but suffice to say that the impression given is that the platform is closed. I was told at the time that these messages were about to be replaced as part of an information review - three years later, there is still no passenger train service currently operating from this platform!

Of course, these default messages are not-infrequently relieved by "The next train is not scheduled to stop at this station" (at Waterloo's terminal platforms)!

 

[urbophile]

Another thing: the word 'alight'. Does anybody use it in ordinary conversation except in connection with burning objects? Does it mean anything at all (except perhaps the former) to foreigners and others unfamiliar with the English language? What's wrong with 'leave', as in 'leave the train here for XXX'?

I have to say it always reminds me of John Betjeman's commuter: 'Gaily into Ruislip Gardens/ Runs the red electric train,/ With a thousand Ta's and Pardon's/ Daintily alights Elaine.' Which sort of works for a suburban young lady dressed in Windsmoor, but not for most of us.

 

[Deepgreen]

Another thing: the word 'alight'. Does anybody use it in ordinary conversation except in connection with burning objects? Does it mean anything at all (except perhaps the former) to foreigners and others unfamiliar with the English language? What's wrong with 'leave', as in 'leave the train here for XXX'?

I have to say it always reminds me of John Betjeman's commuter: 'Gaily into Ruislip Gardens/ Runs the red electric train,/ With a thousand Ta's and Pardon's/ Daintily alights Elaine.' Which sort of works for a suburban young lady dressed in Windsmoor, but not for most of us.

Yes, quite archaic, but I find archaic yet pithy words quite endearing, while readily conceding that they don't help those whose first language isn't English. I still frequently see NR signs stating "No Track Lift or Slue" on bridges, while others use 'Slew'. The former is the older spelling but still valid. Not very long ago, it was possible to find signs around the network saying; 'Tickets Must Be Shewn' (are there any left?).

It's the needless elaboration of messages which is the problem, I think, and which seems to have no limit other than the sheer space or time to be filled.

 

[PR1Berske]

Deepgreen, your most recent post reminds me of seeing "stowage" rather than what I would expect ("storage") on what my memory tells me were Pacers.

 

[swt class 450]

Another pointless announcement which often plays on Southern 377s is "Please listen to all station and on train announcements.". I find it quite rediculous that GTR think they need announcements to tell you to listen to announcements!

 

[Spamcan81]

Another thing: the word 'alight'. Does anybody use it in ordinary conversation except in connection with burning objects? Does it mean anything at all (except perhaps the former) to foreigners and others unfamiliar with the English language? What's wrong with 'leave', as in 'leave the train here for XXX'?

I have to say it always reminds me of John Betjeman's commuter: 'Gaily into Ruislip Gardens/ Runs the red electric train,/ With a thousand Ta's and Pardon's/ Daintily alights Elaine.' Which sort of works for a suburban young lady dressed in Windsmoor, but not for most of us.

A perfectly normal word in my opinion.

 

[plastictaffy]

people aren't idiots.

Sorry, but I think you'll find they are.

 

[swt class 450]

I have used the word "alight" many times. I think lots of people do use it.

 

[Phil.]

Another thing: the word 'alight'. Does anybody use it in ordinary conversation except in connection with burning objects? Does it mean anything at all (except perhaps the former) to foreigners and others unfamiliar with the English language? What's wrong with 'leave', as in 'leave the train here for XXX'?

I have to say it always reminds me of John Betjeman's commuter: 'Gaily into Ruislip Gardens/ Runs the red electric train,/ With a thousand Ta's and Pardon's/ Daintily alights Elaine.' Which sort of works for a suburban young lady dressed in Windsmoor, but not for most of us.

I use the word alight. it's the correct way of describing the act of getting off a train as in, "Alight here for the bus service to Dunny on the Wold".

 

[Via Bank]

A perfectly normal word in my opinion.

I have used the word "alight" many times. I think lots of people do use it.

I use the word alight. it's the correct way of describing the act of getting off a train as in, "Alight here for the bus service to Dunny on the Wold".

With respect, the sample here is rather skewed. This is a rail enthusiasts' forum and one would assume most rail enthusiasts know that "alighting" means "climbing down from something as you would from a train." The general population will be different.

I for one had never heard the word "alight" (as in the verb, to mean climbing down) until I was 16 and started commuting by train.

 

[BurtonM]

There's one announcement that always gets me.

"The next station is Wapping".

It's really not that big...

 

[tsr]

Another pointless announcement which often plays on Southern 377s is "Please listen to all station and on train announcements.". I find it quite rediculous that GTR think they need announcements to tell you to listen to announcements!

It's not ridiculous at all. It's the generic placeholder text used to show one of two things:

- There is no 4 digit PIS Code to enter to configure the system to show the correct calling pattern, but the driver has fully set up the train (excluding 313s, the PIS is the last thing the driver sets up before departure - without a message loaded on the system, or without manually calling them, you don't know if they're ready to go).
- The PIS has failed and the crew have manually overwritten it, with manual announcements to be made until the system is restored or the journey ends.

 

[AlterEgo]

With respect, the sample here is rather skewed. This is a rail enthusiasts' forum and one would assume most rail enthusiasts know that "alighting" means "climbing down from something as you would from a train." The general population will be different.

I for one had never heard the word "alight" (as in the verb, to mean climbing down) until I was 16 and started commuting by train.

Indeed. I have never used it, not even when I used to write to customers, and the only time I have heard it is on a train.

It is an archaic term. Abolish it, and say "get off", or "leave".

 

[Deepgreen]

I use the word alight. it's the correct way of describing the act of getting off a train as in, "Alight here for the bus service to Dunny on the Wold".

I think most people know what 'alight' means in reference to vehicles, but few would use it.

 

[adc82140]

"Please do not leave cases or parcels unattended..."

One one hand, when was the last time you saw anyone with a "parcel". Secondly, does that mean it's fine to leave a holdall lying about- it's neither a case nor a parcel. How about "Please do not leave any luggage unattended.."

That announcement irritates me all the more during times of disruption- you're standing around with bog all information, the bing-bongs go, getting your hopes up, and then you get something useless like that. I swear you can hear the collective sigh.

 

[Deepgreen]

"Please do not leave cases or parcels unattended..."

One one hand, when was the last time you saw anyone with a "parcel". Secondly, does that mean it's fine to leave a holdall lying about- it's neither a case nor a parcel. How about "Please do not leave any luggage unattended.."

That announcement irritates me all the more during times of disruption- you're standing around with bog all information, the bing-bongs go, getting your hopes up, and then you get something useless like that. I swear you can hear the collective sigh.

I suspect that "Do not leave luggage unattended" (no "please" - it needs to be as strong as "No Smoking") would do it as a fair cover-all, especially in conjunction with "Please report anything suspicious".

 

[DynamicSpirit]

"Please do not leave cases or parcels unattended..."

One one hand, when was the last time you saw anyone with a "parcel".

Oddly enough, yesterday, when changing trains at Bank. Someone was walking along the corridor between the Central and Northern lines carrying what was very clearly a large parcel. It was even wrapped in brown paper!

I do agree with you that it's odd language though. And I probably wouldn't even have noticed the man carrying the parcel if the fact of carrying a large parcel in a station didn't look so unusual

 

[Deepgreen]

London Underground's usually fairly succinct announcements now, unfortunately, include "Stand well back behind the yellow line" - why "well back"; has it been painted in the wrong place?

 

[Phil.]

"Please ensure that you take your personal belongings with you".
If they're your belongings they're personal to you. Doh!

 

[hounddog]

"Please ensure that you take your personal belongings with you".
If they're your belongings they're personal to you. Doh!

At least it's better than 'all your personal belongings'. I leave almost all of mine at home when I travel.

 

[EM2]

London Underground's usually fairly succinct announcements now, unfortunately, include "Stand well back behind the yellow line" - why "well back"; has it been painted in the wrong place?

"Stand well back, behind the yellow line".

 

[jamesr]

I'm enjoying this thread. How did railspeak end up with "all change" meaning "get off the train", even at stations where there are no other public transport services to change onto?

Are they expecting me to remove all my clothing and replace it in honour of our arrival?

 

[Deepgreen]

Another example from GWR last night - among the endless drivel about suspicious behaviour etc., he chose to say that "we are supposed to arrive into Reading at about xxxx..." - (my bold type) another guard who thinks scheduled times are approximate! He then warned us to be careful when leaving the train at Betchworth as "this station is set up on a curve"!! First, it isn't a model railway layout, and second, the curve is so gentle as to be almost imperceptible and certainly makes not the slightest difference to the platform train interface. The epitome of someone seemingly making announcements for the sake of it!

 

[Clip]

London Underground's usually fairly succinct announcements now, unfortunately, include "Stand well back behind the yellow line" - why "well back"; has it been painted in the wrong place?

No but whilst the yellow line is for safety by asking passengers to stand well back from it it aids the flow of passengers moving along the platform and makes perfect sense.

 

[cjohnson]

Worst one I've heard recently is a District line driver insisting "Please stand clear of the PTI - I need to see the PTI is clear before the train can depart"

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Worst one I've heard recently is a District line driver insisting "Please stand clear of the PTI - I need to see the PTI is clear before the train can depart"

Makes sense. After all drivers have to sit down all day which doesn't give you much exercise. He probably needed to see the Physical Training Instructor every so often to make sure he's fit and not at risk of a heart attack. I mean you wouldn't want your driver to have a heart attack between stations because he hasn't had enough exercise and he missed seeing the Physical Training Instructor, would you. Besides, the Physical Training Instructor's probably a big muscly kind of bloke - not the sort you'd want to annoy by standing in his way

 

[HowardGWR]

Another example from GWR last night - among the endless drivel about suspicious behaviour etc., he chose to say that "we are supposed to arrive into Reading at about xxxx..." - (my bold type) another guard who thinks scheduled times are approximate! He then warned us to be careful when leaving the train at Betchworth as "this station is set up on a curve"!! First, it isn't a model railway layout, and second, the curve is so gentle as to be almost imperceptible and certainly makes not the slightest difference to the platform train interface. The epitome of someone seemingly making announcements for the sake of it!

Sounds like a friendly bloke to me. Wasting his time with you though clearly!