Lancaster to Birmingham NS.

[Sammy h]

Can anyone find me the best priced return traveling on the 8th October and returning on the 9th October. Or the 30th September coming back on 2nd October.

I have checked NRE and am getting prices of £50 plus, just wondering it anyone could help.

Thanks

 

[sonic2009]

Any Railcards. Flexible or Non - Flexible i.e advance?

 

[yorkie]

The price of a through Off Peak Return is £56.50, this is valid on any train except those timed to depart Mondays-Fridays before 0415. Anything else may be less flexible and it is unclear how much flexibility you need?

"Splitting" the journey into a combination of tickets may work. Use a WebTIS website (e.g. EC, LM etc) and click the info (i) button next to the itinerary you want, then tick 'show all calling points', this shows the places where you could "split" the journey into a combination of tickets (note the train must call on the return journey too). For example, Preston will be the first station on the list to check.

Note that if you want to return a different day (as in your case), then unless singles are sensibly priced (unlikely in the case of shorter distance singles) it will not be cheaper to split at stations where only Day Return tickets are available. Therefore, it is generally only best to look at longer distance tickets, where Off Peak Return (SVR) fares can be combined.

"Splitting" isn't the only way to reduce the cost. You can take advantage of Routeing Guide anomalies by looking for 'over-distance' tickets which you can then start/finish short, though ATOC and some TOCs are keen to remove such anomalies so if they get mentioned here that can mean the end of them. Finishing short/breaking your journey is not permitted with Advance tickets though, so this technique is only valid when using "walk on" tickets.

Travelling at "peak" times (which varies by route and ticket held) can be reduced by purchasing tickets with more favourable restrictions and either splitting and/or starting/finishing short. Again, some TOCs do not like this and can take action. Obviously that does not apply in the case of the 8th-9th of October, though it may apply on the 30th September, depending on what time you want to travel. The through Off Peak fare is very flexible, but if you "split", you may have to depart later if using Off Peak tickets.

 

[Sammy h]

Sorry, no railcards an flexible within those dates.

 

[OwlMan]

Lancaster - Manchester Off peak Return £16-50
Stoke - Birmingham Off Peak Return £15-00

Both tickets are valid via Crewe

Peter

 

[yorkie]

Sorry, no railcards an flexible within those dates.

Have you tried my suggestions above? What's the best you've found so far?

It looks like you will save a marginal amount (£4) by splitting at Warrington Bank Quay and Stafford. However, note that direct trains from Lancaster to Birmingham New Street do not usually call at Stafford and therefore it is likely you would need to change trains at Crewe to take advantage of this combination of tickets.

Or you could do collybs' suggestion above - but be prepared to argue your case as the guard may not be willing to accept that, and I certainly would strongly advise changing trains at Crewe (see my comments regarding over-distance above).

 

[thewolf]

Lancaster - Manchester Off peak Return £16-50
Stoke - Birmingham Off Peak Return £15-00

Both tickets are valid via Crewe

Peter

Are Stoke - Birmingham tickets valid via Crewe?

It would seem odd as there are plenty of direct services, its a fair diversion and is nearly half the price of a Crewe - Brum return...

 

[yorkie]

Are Stoke - Birmingham tickets valid via Crewe?

Yes. And if collybs says it's valid, then it is 99.9% likely to be valid

It would seem odd as there are plenty of direct services

That has no bearing on routeing permissions (thankfully!)

its a fair diversion

So is York-Leeds via Harrogate! Again, not really much of a bearing on routeing permissions either.

and is nearly half the price of a Crewe - Brum return...

Now that is a problem. And now* it's been published here, ATOC may remove it, using their usual "it was never intended" / "it's a mistake" excuses to the DafT, who are supposedly meant to approve (or disapprove - no chance of that!) such changes.

Valid Routes from Stoke-on-Trent [SOT] to Birmingham Stations [BHM]:

1. Direct trains from Stoke-on-Trent to Birmingham Stations
2. Shortest Route: 44.25 miles (to New St)
   • Stoke-on-Trent
   • Stafford
   • Penkridge
   • Wolverhampton
   • Birmingham New Street
3. Mapped Routes:
   Stoke-on-Trent - BIRMINGHAM GROUP:
   • CC
   • TV + BP

(* It may, of course, have been mentioned here before - it probably has! - and it may be that ATOC are already aware of it, it may be that ATOC don't read this topic, though I suspect they read most so that's wishful thinking... it may have been due for removal anyway. Sometimes they remove anomalies that have been published here within days, sometimes it takes a year or more...)

 

[John @ home]

Are Stoke - Birmingham tickets valid via Crewe?

Permitted Routes Stole-on-Trent - Birmingham Group are shown on map CC, or map combination BP+TV. Both permit travel via Crewe.

 

[All Line Rover]

Now that is a problem. And now* it's been published here, ATOC may remove it, using their usual "it was never intended" / "it's a mistake" excuses to the DafT, who are supposedly meant to approve (or disapprove - no chance of that!) such changes.

Valid Routes from Stoke-on-Trent [SOT] to Birmingham Stations [BHM]:

1. Direct trains from Stoke-on-Trent to Birmingham Stations
2. Shortest Route: 44.25 miles (to New St)
   • Stoke-on-Trent
   • Stafford
   • Penkridge
   • Wolverhampton
   • Birmingham New Street
3. Mapped Routes:
   Stoke-on-Trent - BIRMINGHAM GROUP:
   • CC
   • TV + BP

(* It may, of course, have been mentioned here before - it probably has! - and it may be that ATOC are already aware of it, it may be that ATOC don't read this topic, though I suspect they read most so that's wishful thinking... it may have been due for removal anyway. Sometimes they remove anomalies that have been published here within days, sometimes it takes a year or more...)

I would not expect it to be removed. Going via Crewe is fairly reasonable - guards accept almost any ticket from Stoke via Crewe. (Don't count on this for the Lancaster to Manchester one!)

Also, it is NOT half the price. It is only £7 cheaper - a fairly small amount in the long scheme of things. I highly doubt ATOC would remove the route, but they may decide to slowly increase the fare from Stoke!

 

[dave87016]

According to Virgin website there are tickets at 21 pounds each way ( advance purchase) from Lancaster to Birmingham for outward 8th October and returning on the 9th October) or theres two off peak singles ( Booked via Virgin website only ) at 22:10GBP each way

 

[AlterEgo]

or theres two off peak singles ( Booked via Virgin website only ) at 22:10GBP each way

This will actually be an Off-Peak Return when printed - it's a vagary of the website!

 

[snail]

theres two off peak singles ( Booked via Virgin website only ) at 22:10GBP each way

Is this direct or a combination of tickets? If the Off Peak Rtn is £56.50, the singles should be £28.25.

This will actually be an Off-Peak Return when printed - it's a vagary of the website!

A good one if there is an Advance in one direction that suits travel, but annoying if you need some flexibility on the return, as singles are valid only on the day of travel but the return gives you a month. I usually make sure I order the return if I need one by using the 'slower trains' option to select by ticket type. Or use a different site to book.

 

[dave87016]

It is actually off peak single each way ( web only) but you could get off peak single one way and advance the other - mix and match like - whereas you cant with a off peak return.

 

[snail]

It is actually off peak single each way ( web only) but you could get off peak single one way and advance the other - mix and match like - whereas you cant with a off peak return.

I know that. I was querying the fare, it should be £28.25 not £22.10.

 

[thewolf]

I would not expect it to be removed. Going via Crewe is fairly reasonable - guards accept almost any ticket from Stoke via Crewe. (Don't count on this for the Lancaster to Manchester one!)

Also, it is NOT half the price. It is only £7 cheaper - a fairly small amount in the long scheme of things. I highly doubt ATOC would remove the route, but they may decide to slowly increase the fare from Stoke!

That £7 is a large amount on that fare though...

Never mind.


On the subject of Stoke and Crewe... A few months back I was travelling from Crewe back to Stoke, but the last direct train had gone. Checked on the National Rail journey planner and it told me to go via Stockport (!). I followed its advice, ready to show the guard the journey planner when I inevitably got questioned about it...

Neither guard (from Crewe to Stockport, or Stockport to Stoke) batted an eyelid at it.

Surely that isn't a valid route though? It doesn't seem to come up on the journey planner anymore - not even with a warning about needing two tickets...

 

[yorkie]

..
Neither guard (from Crewe to Stockport, or Stockport to Stoke) batted an eyelid at it.

Surely that isn't a valid route though?...

Firstly, when the last trains by direct routes are gone, you will find the vast majority of guards will show common sense and be lenient.

Secondly, you are asking if Crewe to Stoke is valid via Stockport?

To do this, the Routeing Guide needs to be consulted.

Both stations are Routeing Points.

The only mapped route is on map EM, which does nothing more than show the direct route between the two (which is valid anyway under the shortest route rule).

So the answer is, no a Crewe to Stoke ticket isn't valid via Stockport.

I see you are interested in determining permitted routes, so I recommend you give the Routeing Guide a try, and if you get stuck, let us know which part you are stuck on and we'll do our best to help We do also run fares workshops if that interests you.

 

[thewolf]

Firstly, when the last trains by direct routes are gone, you will find the vast majority of guards will show common sense and be lenient.

Secondly, you are asking if Crewe to Stoke is valid via Stockport?

To do this, the Routeing Guide needs to be consulted.

Both stations are Routeing Points.

The only mapped route is on map EM, which does nothing more than show the direct route between the two (which is valid anyway under the shortest route rule).

So the answer is, no a Crewe to Stoke ticket isn't valid via Stockport.

I see you are interested in determining permitted routes, so I recommend you give the Routeing Guide a try, and if you get stuck, let us know which part you are stuck on and we'll do our best to help We do also run fares workshops if that interests you.

I had assumed it wasn't a valid route, and presumed - as the last train is quite early between two towns 10 miles away - there are probably quite a few who use such a route in the evening which is why it was readily accepted.

I do peruse the routeing guides and the like from time to time, its always worth a bit of homework to make a saving. Got myself from Brum to Bristol for just over a tenner with my railcard a few weeks ago with some cunning splitting

And if I can't find a way round by myself, there's always the magnificent knowledge of people on this forum that can be called on. Those fare workshops sound quite interesting however...

 

[All Line Rover]

That £7 is a large amount on that fare though...

Never mind.

If a Crewe to Birmingham ticket is valid via Stoke (which it is and always will be), it is common sense that a Stoke to Birmingham fare is - and always should be - valid via Crewe!

Stoke is served by fewer trains to Birmingham than Crewe is. It is also served by those awful Voyagers! (For Standard Class passengers anyway. )

Let's also remember that when London Midland have their "Rail Sale" (which seems to be almost never-ending!) the Crewe to Birmingham fare is much cheaper than the Stoke to Birmingham fare. (So if ATOC tried to increase the Stoke to Birmingham fare to "bring it in line with the Crewe to Birmingham fare," this could be contested since that flow doesn't benefit from frequent sales.)

 

[island]

If a Crewe to Birmingham ticket is valid via Stoke (which it is and always will be), it is common sense that a Stoke to Birmingham fare is - and always should be - valid via Crewe!

Err... say what? By that logic, since a London to Newcastle ticket is valid via York, a London to York ticket is valid via Newcastle. Which is a bit of a stretch.

 

[All Line Rover]

Err... say what? By that logic, since a London to Newcastle ticket is valid via York, a London to York ticket is valid via Newcastle. Which is a bit of a stretch.

You don't understand.

Stoke/Crewe to Birmingham is a triangular route, meaning that it is possible to go via either station without doubling back. (Just look on a National Rail map - it's obvious.) London to York via Newcastle would involve doubling back.