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Lancaster - Garsdale/Ribblehead Route Validity?

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Daimler

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Looking up times for a trip from Lancaster - Garsdale/Ribblehead in a couple of weeks (hopefully not in middle of the potential strike!), I've found that the last train to come back via Carnforth is the 15:23 (off Ribblehead), changing at Hellifield.

However, on National Rail it also shows a 17:42 off Ribblehead, returning via Leeds, as being valid - or at least I think it does, as you can't select a train on the National Rail website to see which fare is valid. Is Garsdale/Ribblehead - Lancaster via Leeds and Preston a valid route?

Thanks!
 
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Isn't a route always valid if it's shown on the NR website? However, I agree that excepting the website then the route does not appear valid (maps MM, NC).
 

Daimler

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That's what I understood from the routeing guide. But then, neither of those maps show any part of the S&C anyway...
 

Solent&Wessex

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That's what I understood from the routeing guide. But then, neither of those maps show any part of the S&C anyway...

A quick check of the Routeing Guide reveals the following:

Garsdale and Ribblehead both share the same Routeing Points - Carlisle or Hellifield Group.

To check which is the appropriate routeing point we do a fares check. Garsdale or Ribblehead to Lancaster are both £13.90. Carlisle to Lancaster is £24.60, Hellifield to Lancaster is £11.20. Thus Hellifield is the only permitted Routeing point.

So you are valid the shortest route into the Hellifield Group (ie direct) and then via permitted routes from there to Lancaster. The permitted Maps MM and NC both show that the only permitted route is direct via Bentham.

Thus, that is the route you must take.

 

tony_mac

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NationalRail shows the journey, but if you look at the prices it says 'You need to buy more than one ticket for this journey'

It used to be clearer on the old website.
 

Daimler

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A quick check of the Routeing Guide reveals the following:

Garsdale and Ribblehead both share the same Routeing Points - Carlisle or Hellifield Group.

To check which is the appropriate routeing point we do a fares check. Garsdale or Ribblehead to Lancaster are both £13.90. Carlisle to Lancaster is £24.60, Hellifield to Lancaster is £11.20. Thus Hellifield is the only permitted Routeing point.

So you are valid the shortest route into the Hellifield Group (ie direct) and then via permitted routes from there to Lancaster. The permitted Maps MM and NC both show that the only permitted route is direct via Bentham.

Thus, that is the route you must take.


That makes sense, but it does raise questions about the reliability of the National Rail website - I mean, someone who had no idea about the routeing guide and merely took what National Rail said for fact could be misled into travelling via an invalid route - the invalid route allows you to leave two hours later, which would be attractive to many people (me included!).

In your capacity as a (I think) TPE guard, what would you do if you found someone travelling on an invalid route in this way, given that it had been recommended by National Rail - indeed, if they could show you the relevant information from the website that incorrectly 'OKed' the journey?

As it happens, we're going to go to Windermere instead as a result, as we won't get enough time in the Dales to do any proper walking. :(

EDIT

NationalRail shows the journey, but if you look at the prices it says 'You need to buy more than one ticket for this journey'

It used to be clearer on the old website.

Ah yes, so it does! That makes a lot more sense.

It could hardly be more obscure though - you've got not only to click on 'details' but also carefully notice it at the top of the screen!
 
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yorkie

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Isn't a route always valid if it's shown on the NR website? However, I agree that excepting the website then the route does not appear valid (maps MM, NC).
Debatable.

But what is far less debateable is this:

Book the journey, on-line, obtain reservations (where available - not on NT), and print the itinerary and bring the booking confirmation including journey itinerary with you. No-one doing this is realistically going to be charged an excess fare. You have formed a contract by purchasing the ticket, and you have the proof of contract. We have not heard of anyone be charged under such circumstances.

However producing a printout of a potential journey itinerary, then buying at a station or on board, if you are then told it is not valid, it is then a can of worms as to where you stand.

Our advice is always to book it online, thus forming a contract, and bring the documentation with you.
 

Solent&Wessex

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Isn't a route always valid if it's shown on the NR website? .

Sadly not. The National Rail website can be, and often is, very misleading in this respect. It is considerably worse since they redesigned it as - as has been mentioned before - the bit about needing more than one ticket is not clear at all now.

If someone is travelling on an invalid route with a ticket then unless they have a reservation and journey itinary associated with that ticket then they will need to purchase a new ticket which is valid. If they produce a printout of a timetable from the website I would refer them to the "needing more than one ticket" bit.

Having said that, I only ever had two cases which were not valid but was booked as such so I had to accept them.

One was a passenger from Carlisle to Liverpool travelling via Leeds who had a journey itinary and reservation from Leeds to Liverpool despite it not being a valid route. Secondly was a passenger from Leeds to Newcastle with a ticket marked " Route XC Only" but had a reservation for a TPE service throughout. In both cases the tickets were purchased in advance and the tickets and reservations both showed the same reference numbers so were booked incorrectly.
 

yorkie

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Secondly was a passenger from Leeds to Newcastle with a ticket marked " Route XC Only" but had a reservation for a TPE service throughout. In both cases the tickets were purchased in advance and the tickets and reservations both showed the same reference numbers so were booked incorrectly.
sounds like an issue with the booking database or something! How strange!
 
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