Lancashire Day Ranger not accepted on Merseyrail?

[BeccaOnATrain]

3 guards at Liverpool South Parkway (who didn't really seem to understand what the day ranger was) said it wasn't accepted on Merseyrail.

The railrover.org website says it is.

I've used the Cheshire Day Ranger on Merseyrail before.

Any idea what gives?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

3 guards at Liverpool South Parkway (who didn't really seem to understand what the day ranger was) said it wasn't accepted on Merseyrail.

The railrover.org website says it is.

I've used the Cheshire Day Ranger on Merseyrail before.

Any idea what gives?

Reckon the 'Lancashire Day Ranger' product is allowed on parts of the Merseyrail network, e.g. Southport to Liverpool Central, but not at Liverpool South Parkway.

 

[Watershed]

It's absolutely valid on Merseyrail. Several of the lines it's valid on are only served by them! It also unambiguously states that they are a participating operator on the NRE website. However, it's not valid at Liverpool South Parkway as this is outwith the area of validity.

So in this case, the staff were correct to say it wasn't valid - although probably for the wrong reasons!

 

[pwharley]

It is accepted.

Merseyrail is shown as one of the participating TOCs on the NRE page.

Lancashire Day Ranger | National Rail

Special offer: Lancashire Day Ranger. The portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

Just show this page the next time you see them. #PoorTraining

 

[30907]

3 guards at Liverpool South Parkway (who didn't really seem to understand what the day ranger was) said it wasn't accepted on Merseyrail.

The railrover.org website says it is.

I've used the Cheshire Day Ranger on Merseyrail before.

Any idea what gives?

It is valid on Merseyrail, but only within the area it covers, which clearly excludes lines south of Liverpool-Earlestown-Manchester (and of course Wirral!).
So Central/James St and points north only.

Right refusal, wrong reason.

 

[Hadders]

3 guards at Liverpool South Parkway (who didn't really seem to understand what the day ranger was) said it wasn't accepted on Merseyrail.

The railrover.org website says it is.

I've used the Cheshire Day Ranger on Merseyrail before.

Any idea what gives?

According to nationalrail.co.uk which unhelpfully has no map of the area (despite referring to one), it is valid on MerseyRail but Liverpool SOuth Parkway isn't on the list of valid stations

 

[Mcr Warrior]

This link from Northern's website...

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/sites/default/files/2022-10/Lancashire%20Day%20Ranger%20map%20NEW.pdf

N.B. Not all stations shown on the schematic map.

 

[wilbers]

There is a map here.

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/sites/default/files/2022-10/Lancashire%20Day%20Ranger%20map%20NEW.pdf

 

[BeccaOnATrain]

Whelp.. I see now it doesn't cover the line through to Warrington. They said I could use other national rail services to get to Liverpool Lime Street. I guess that is incorrect! Better keep a low profile here and buy a single to Liverpool Lime Street. Whoops.

Thanks everyone

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Whelp.. I see now it doesn't cover the line through to Warrington. They said I could use other national rail services to get to Liverpool Lime Street. I guess that is incorrect! Better keep a low profile here and buy a single to Liverpool Lime Street. Whoops.

Suppose that depends on the route you're using to get to Liverpool Lime Street.

The 'Cheshire Day Ranger' does, however, allow most itineraries to/via the two Warrington stations. Also, Liverpool South Parkway.

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/sites/default/files/2022-10/Cheshire%20Day%20Ranger%20map%20NEW.pdf

 

[BeccaOnATrain]

Before I posted here I messaged MerseyRail on WhatsApp about the validity of the Rover on their network and I have just received this.

I didn't actually mention Liverpool South parkway, just "In Liverpool".

Hi Becca.
If you check the map.
the ticket is only valid at Southport, Kirkby and Ormskirk stations as these stations are terminal ends for Northern Trains. The reason Merseyrail are listed is bcause you are granted access and exit to some Merseyrail stations where you would board or alight your Northern Trains service, stations being Southport, Kirkby and Ormskirk, It does not allow travel on Merseyrail services.
Thank you

I also spoke to the staff at South Parkway after posting here and they said it's fine for me to get off at Liverpool Central or even go as far as Southport on ME.

Now I'm doubley confused..

 

[wilbers]

Which map do they think they are [wrongly] referring to in that whatsapp message?

 

[NorthWestRover]

Show them the list of valid stations on NRE and ask them which Northern Traisn go to Formby or Kirkdale or Maghull etc etc...

 

[Flying Snail]

It is accepted.

Merseyrail is shown as one of the participating TOCs on the NRE page.

Lancashire Day Ranger | National Rail

Special offer: Lancashire Day Ranger. The portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

Just show this page the next time you see them. #PoorTraining

If that is any indication, the new improved nationalrail site is not going to be an improvement.

"A Ranger ticket which is valid for 1 day, offering unlimited travel in the area shown on the map"

And no map shown.

 

[Watershed]

Before I posted here I messaged MerseyRail on WhatsApp about the validity of the Rover on their network and I have just received this.

I didn't actually mention Liverpool South parkway, just "In Liverpool".



I also spoke to the staff at South Parkway after posting here and they said it's fine for me to get off at Liverpool Central or even go as far as Southport on ME.

Now I'm doubley confused..

Unsurprisingly, Merseyrail's customer services haven't a clue. Unless it's a "bank error in your favour", so to speak, you should just rely on what established sources such as NRE or Northern's website say.

Both make it absolutely clear that the Merseyrail-served lines from Liverpool to Southport, Kirkby and Ormskirk are included within the area of validity of the Lancashire Day Ranger.

Either way, the Ranger isn't valid from Liverpool South Parkway.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I had a particularly fierce debate with Merseyrail staff at Southport a few years ago using one of these tickets.

The ticket didn't work the gates and when they looked at the ticket they asked what train I was getting as the Northern train towards Wigan had just departed.

I said I was going to Liverpool and that was it. "You can't use it on Merseyrail" "We don't accept those tickets" etc etc.

Firstly they said it was because Liverpool wasn't in Lancashire so it a Lancashire Day Ranger wasn't valid there, it was only valid in Lancashire.

I showed them the map and they then said that Merseyrail wasn't part of National Rail and therefore the website was wrong.

They point blank refused to let me through the gates and then when I insisted on speaking to someone who had a clue, or a Supervisor, they took me off to the ticket office. Who also said Merseyrail wasn't part of National Rail and only Merseyrail tickets were accepted and said I'd have to buy a ticket.

I refused.

By this time the next Northern train was due and I said I had changed my plans and would catch that. They said that was OK and let me through. At which point I just walked a different way and got the next Merseyrail train, albeit a bit later than planned.

They followed me on and started saying "they would let me travel this time" but I would get a Penalty Fare in Liverpool.

I didn't.

Upon arrival in Liverpool one of the gates was open and the staff member minding it was not remotely interested in what ticket anybody passing through did, or didn't have.

I thought about complaining but considered that this would achieve absolutely nothing so couldn't be bothered wasting my time.

 

[David57]

I had a ticket barrier inspector at Liverpool Moorfields insist that the ticket wasn't valid until 10.00, I went to the ticket office, who confirmed that he was wrong, and was let through the barrier claiming that the ticket office were wrong, but he 'let me off this once'.....

 

[185143]

I had a ticket barrier inspector at Liverpool Moorfields insist that the ticket wasn't valid until 10.00, I went to the ticket office, who confirmed that he was wrong, and was let through the barrier claiming that the ticket office were wrong, but he 'let me off this once'.....

I love being let off "this once", when you're right, know you're right, have proven you're right and still the person you're arguing with won't admit they're wrong.

Last time I did a Saveaway, I was told by a member of gateline staff at Liverpool Central that a bog roll ticket clearly showing the ranger name as "MTRAV SAVEAWAY ALL AREAS" was only valid in Sheffield, so I'm not surprised at all that people have had issues with Lancashire Day Rangers! Context-I'd purchased it from a conductor on a TPE train, who was presumably based at Sheffield as that was where the train had originated. It therefore had "issued at Sheffield DS", or similar, on it.

I was eventually reluctantly allowed to travel. Encountered a couple of Bylaw Enforcement officers a couple of stops down the line who checked tickets as they patrolled the train. "Cheers la!" and they were off. Quite why that resulted in a 5 minute debate at Liverpool Central I have no idea.

 

[LPJOHN]

I use the excellent “GB RAIL ROVER GUIDE”

GB RAIL ROVER GUIDE - Lancashire Day Ranger

How to find rail rover and ranger tickets on the national rail network. Rover and ranger tickets are cheap tickets for rail travel

www.railrover.org

I also keep maps of the area validity on my iPad mini, just in case a guard or someone at a station queries it.

edit: I just realised, BeccaOnATrain mentioned the rail rover.org

 

[MrJeeves]

I use the excellent “GB RAIL ROVER GUIDE”

GB RAIL ROVER GUIDE - Lancashire Day Ranger

How to find rail rover and ranger tickets on the national rail network. Rover and ranger tickets are cheap tickets for rail travel

www.railrover.org

I also keep maps of the area validity on my iPad mini, just in case a guard or someone at a station queries it.

edit: I just realised, BeccaOnATrain mentioned the rail rover.org

Main issue is that it's not an official source, unfortunately, and discrepancies have been noticed before (but always promptly corrected!)

 

[Merseysider]

National Rail map.

Not valid at South Parkway (nor the line via Warrington).

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/promotions/Lancashire_Day_Ranger.pdf

 

[Bovverboy]

If that is any indication, the new improved nationalrail site is not going to be an improvement.,,

"A Ranger ticket which is valid for 1 day, offering unlimited travel in the area shown on the map"

And no map shown.

Yes, very helpful. On the link to the 'GB Rail Rover Guide', provided by 'LPJOHN' (post #19, above), the list of stations at which the Lancashire Day Ranger is valid includes Liverpool Central and James Street, but on the equivalent 'National Rail' page, it does not.

Lancashire Day Ranger | National Rail

Special offer: Lancashire Day Ranger. The portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

It's certainly my recollection that the Lancashire Day Ranger was valid all the way around the 'loop', i.e. James Street > Moorfields > Lime Street > Central > James Street, and also on the direct line Central > Moorfields. Perhaps the validity has been changed, and that is certainly the implication, so that would mean that the information provided by 'Mcr Warrior' (post #2) and '30907' (post #5) is now incorrect. The map uploaded by 'Merseysider' (post #21) is undated.
If the above is indeed correct, there is an anomaly in that Moorfields to Lime Street is presumably permissible, but Lime Street to Moorfields is not.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Yes, very helpful. On the link to the 'GB Rail Rover Guide', provided by 'LPJOHN' (post #19, above), the list of stations at which the Lancashire Day Ranger is valid includes Liverpool Central and James Street, but on the equivalent 'National Rail' page, it does not.

Lancashire Day Ranger | National Rail

Special offer: Lancashire Day Ranger. The portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

It's certainly my recollection that the Lancashire Day Ranger was valid all the way around the 'loop', i.e. James Street > Moorfields > Lime Street > Central > James Street, and also on the direct line Central > Moorfields. Perhaps the validity has been changed, and that is certainly the implication, so that would mean that the information provided by 'Mcr Warrior' (post #2) and '30907' (post #5) is now incorrect. The map uploaded by 'Merseysider' (post #21) is undated.
If the above is indeed correct, there is an anomaly in that Moorfields to Lime Street is presumably permissible, but Lime Street to Moorfields is not.

It certainly used to be valid round the loop.

This map dated 2018 which was downloaded from National Rail Enquiries previously shows this:

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's a while ago now, but I was once checked by a Northern conductor around Huyton for using a Cheshire Day Ranger when we "weren't in Cheshire".
After several words, he said he would check and be back, but he never appeared again.
The Lancashire and Cheshire Day Rangers overlap around Manchester and Liverpool and on the Chat Moss route, but perversely the Lancs version is not valid on the CLC route while the Cheshire version is valid via Chat Moss.
I use both Rangers regularly on my trips out, both being very flexible tickets for a circular trip. I often buy either ticket at Hooton on Merseyrail with no problems.
With the Lancs version I pay the separate fare to Liverpool and start using it at Lime St or Moorfields.
I once travelled to Stalybridge on the Lancs ticket, with the OK of the conductor, but discovered later that this isn't on the map, only the route via Rochdale/Hebden Bridge.

 

[30907]

Yes, very helpful. On the link to the 'GB Rail Rover Guide', provided by 'LPJOHN' (post #19, above), the list of stations at which the Lancashire Day Ranger is valid includes Liverpool Central and James Street, but on the equivalent 'National Rail' page, it does not.

If the above is indeed correct, there is an anomaly in that Moorfields to Lime Street is presumably permissible, but Lime Street to Moorfields is not.

Indeed, though I would argue that boarding at Lime St LL and alighting at Moorfields LL is allowed by default, travelling via James St.
The Northern site only has a simplified map showing "Liverpool" which I would argue must allow "Liverpool Stations"

Incidentally, I can see no rational explanation for the old NR map omitting Central to Moorfields.

 

[MikeWM]

Incidentally, I can see no rational explanation for the old NR map omitting Central to Moorfields.

Probably just an oversight, in the same way that the Heart of England Rover map omitted Wrexham General to Wrexham Central, even though it is apparently valid there.