Labour plan to devolve NSE area?

[yorksrob]

Marketing differs between TOCs, no doubt there, but I'm not sure what improvements you'd want in restrictions/ fare structures and the like.

Even under BR there were examples where one longer journey was cheaper than one shorter journey or one route had different peak restrictions to another (or no peak restrictions at all) - given that demands are different on each route.

Similarly, there are differences inside TOCs here (like the way that Northern's "Duo" is only valid on some lines or Southern's "key" is not valid from all stations (and some TOCs have had multiple liveries between their fleet and sub-brands - look at the Stagecoach ones).

Does it really matter to passengers between Brighton and London whether the Bedford - London passengers at the other end of Thameslink have different peak hour restrictions or different ticketing offers.

Some things about BR were good, but that's no reason to try to try to replicate everything.

With regard to restrictions, if I ever have to use morning services into London, having an easily understood restriction would be very useful to me. If anything, we should try to harmonize restrictions into commuter areas across the country as much as possible.

With regard to Southern‘s key system, if it is good practice for the passenger, it should be extendedto other areas.

Network SouthEast was good of BR. We should replicate it. The Beeching cuts were bobbins. You can keep those !

 

[tbtc]

With regard to restrictions, if I ever have to use morning services into London, having an easily understood restriction would be very useful to me. If anything, we should try to harmonize restrictions into commuter areas across the country as much as possible.

With regard to Southern‘s key system, if it is good practice for the passenger, it should be extendedto other areas.

Network SouthEast was good of BR. We should replicate it. The Beeching cuts were bobbins. You can keep those !

Peak restrictions depend on the demand for that line - some routes don't need any peak fares, some have a long or a short "peak".

Similarly, some NSE lines will have peak demand in the "other" direction (e.g. there may be a busy flow into Brighton in the morning and away from Brighton at teatime, so some kind of "peak" fare required, but that may not be an issue for morning demand to Bedford/ teatime demand away from Bedford).

A "one size fits all" policy would meant a significant number of lines would have an inappropriate fare structure.

Some routes have an elastic demand (where offers like the "key" will make a significant difference to passenger numbers), some routes have a fairly inelastic demand so such gimmicks wouldn't make much difference.

 

[yorksrob]

Peak restrictions depend on the demand for that line - some routes don't need any peak fares, some have a long or a short "peak".

Similarly, some NSE lines will have peak demand in the "other" direction (e.g. there may be a busy flow into Brighton in the morning and away from Brighton at teatime, so some kind of "peak" fare required, but that may not be an issue for morning demand to Bedford/ teatime demand away from Bedford).

A "one size fits all" policy would meant a significant number of lines would have an inappropriate fare structure.

Some routes have an elastic demand (where offers like the "key" will make a significant difference to passenger numbers), some routes have a fairly inelastic demand so such gimmicks wouldn't make much difference.

So are you saying that Southern, for example, tailors its peak hours for the Brighton main line with two way traffic, and has a different peak for the Horsham via Dorking route ?

Similarly, are you saying that no other routes aside from Southern around London would benefit from the key system ?

If anything, it seems that routes such as London to Brighton and London to Bedford will be similar to eachother, whereas routes such as Brighton to Seaford will be more similar to Watford to St Alban's.

This thread is beginning to sound like a defense of fragmentation for fragmentation's sake.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Sounds a very sensible idea to me.

One brand for South East England with unified peak times, region wide offers etc.

Come to think of it, I‘ve just thought of a brand name and colour scheme they could use

LOL... Bring back toothpaste

 

[yorksrob]

LOL... Bring back toothpaste

And compartment carriages whilst we're at it

 

[Lincoln]

I think it's worth noting the Southerns 'Key', along with Stagecoachs 'Smart' and other operators cards are all part of the same ITSO scheme, and when (if) rolled out properly will be interchangeable on a technical level (despite operators putting daft conditions on them, which I suspect is down to the graphics designers/TOC scheme implementers not really understanding what they are capable of doing!)

A good analogy would be to think of a complimentary ticket wallet given out with most season tickets - it is usually branded with the company who issued the ticket, however the card ticket inside could be for any route or flow.

The ITSO cards just take that branding to another level, with electronic tickets loaded up instead of card ones.

Of course that doesn't detract away from how operators will eventually implement them to maximise their revenues (cynical I know!) whilst massaging customers across a wider selection of trains through different fare tactics, hoping to achieve lower levels of overcrowding.

tbtc hits the nail on the head in relation to peak timings, in that a uniform system would achieve nothing except create extreme over crowing on some trains, and making others empty. A good example would be on lines where there is a limited service such as between Lincoln and Grimsby - would a blanket 0900 restriction be appropriate when there is a departure from Lincoln at 0814 with the next being 1015. Whereas on perhaps the cross city line in Birmingham you would have situations where a peak train suddenly becomes off peak at the next station. At present there are various easements on restrictions for particular trains, and whilst it does mean the fare manual is huge (if it was printed anymore!) it does go some way to ensuring a degree of consistency for local journeys in maintaining separation between peak and off-peak trains. This is obviously without going into the realms of split tickets and other anomalies of the fare system as I am taking a generalised point of view here.

Again a blanket time would be simpler to understand but would actually cause detriment to a number of customers with little gain.