Kyle line speed

[Gathursty]

I'm currently up in Scotland and have been surprised by the speed of all services North of Perth including the Far North Line but I was expecting the Kyle line to be pretty quick especially from Lochluichart to Strathcarron as it doesn't hug any erratic coastlines/lochsides however it seemed to be quite slow, very much like the West Highland line North of Helensburgh.

Was the Kyle line designed to be as quick as the other lines out of Inverness or not?

 

[Unstoppable]

Inverness - Dingwall 75mph max, Dingwall - Strathcarron 45mph max and Strathcarron to Kyle is pretty much mainly 30mph

 

[hexagon789]

I'm currently up in Scotland and have been surprised by the speed of all services North of Perth including the Far North Line but I was expecting the Kyle line to be pretty quick especially from Lochluichart to Strathcarron as it doesn't hug any erratic coastlines/lochsides however it seemed to be quite slow, very much like the West Highland line North of Helensburgh.

Was the Kyle line designed to be as quick as the other lines out of Inverness or not?

No, it was never designed as a fast route - none of the Western or Northern Highland lines were.

Before Sprinterisation linespeeds were even lower - 40 on the Kyle Line and 65 on the mainline from Inverness to Wick/Thurso. Sprinter differentials pushed that to 45 to Kyle and up to 75 on the Far North, the 158s saw limits raised to as high as 90 on the Far North.

On the Western Highland lines to Oban/Fort William/Mallaig - the Fort William/Mallaig lines were 40 max until 1979, Oban was 50 even in steam days. The line to Fort William was pushed to 50mph in 1979 and on Sprinterisation three sections of 70mph for the 156s were authorised as well as the raising of various other limits for Sprinter trains. The Oban line wasn't as affected by the changes and remains at a 50mph ceiling.

 

[Railsigns]

The line to Fort William was pushed to 50mph in 1979 and on Sprinterisation three sections of 70mph for the 156s were authorised as well as the raising of various other limits for Sprinter trains. The Oban line wasn't as affected by the changes and remains at a 50mph ceiling.

Higher permissible speeds for Sprinters were implemented on the Oban line at the same time as on the line to Fort William and Mallaig (January 1989), including some stretches where the limit was raised to 55 mph.

 

[Gathursty]

Is there anything within the realms of reality that could speed up any bit of the Kyle line?

It was a bit of a pity seeing a lorry speed past on the road/rail bit near Attadale.

 

[hexagon789]

Higher permissible speeds for Sprinters were implemented on the Oban line at the same time as on the line to Fort William and Mallaig (January 1989), including some stretches where the limit was raised to 55 mph.

Apologies, for some reason I thought it was still 50, just some of the PSRs eased for Sprinters.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Apr 2022 ==

Is there anything within the realms of reality that could speed up any bit of the Kyle line?

It was a bit of a pity seeing a lorry speed past on the road/rail bit near Attadale.

If it could've been pushed beyond 45 I suspect it would have been. Given the stupidly short 90 section (1mi, 40ch) that was authorised on the Far North among other really short sections that I doubt 158s can achieve the limit within (a similarly short 80 section for instance).

 

[Unstoppable]

Apologies, for some reason I thought it was still 50, just some of the PSRs eased for Sprinters.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Apr 2022 ==


If it could've been pushed beyond 45 I suspect it would have been. Given the stupidly short 90 section (1mi, 40ch) that was authorised on the Far North among other really short sections that I doubt 158s can achieve the limit within (a similarly short 80 section for instance).

Depending on the set, adhesion and driver you can JUST achieve 90mph in the down direction before going straight into step 2 for Altnabreac station. You find some drivers open it up wide going around the left hand bend which is 65mph giving you that little bit extra time to get to 90mph. Since Altnabreac - Scotscalder no longer has jointed track and it is fairly straight I would hope to see the speed increased from 70mph one day but who knows

 

[hexagon789]

Depending on the set, adhesion and driver you can JUST achieve 90mph in the down direction before going straight into step 2 for Altnabreac station. You find some drivers open it up wide going around the left hand bend which is 65mph giving you that little bit extra time to get to 90mph. Since Altnabreac - Scotscalder no longer has jointed track and it is fairly straight I would hope to see the speed increased from 70mph one day but who knows

I'm impressed, I didn't think a 158 had it in it!

 

[Unstoppable]

I'm impressed, I didn't think a 158 had it in it!

The 90mph section is on County March Summit so the downhill gradient helps it. You find most drivers will start coasting from 75/80 but you have the odd speed devil….

 

[mrcheek]

why would anyone be in such a hurry on the most beautiful line in Britain?

 

[hexagon789]

The 90mph section is on County March Summit so the downhill gradient helps it. You find most drivers will start coasting from 75/80 but you have the odd speed devil….

As long as nobody tries to emulate Stirling Moss and does 115 between Kingussie and Kincraig in an HST again...

why would anyone be in such a hurry on the most beautiful line in Britain?

It's slower than it was about 40 years ago!

 

[fgwrich]

It's slower than it was about 40 years ago!

Have to agree there, I've done the Kyle line once and while it is a beautiful scenic line, it's slow speed does become rather tedious after a while. It also meant my friends in Kyle often preferred to drive than take the ScotRail service as it is quicker.

I have to say I've just looked it up and it's only a 2hr 46 journey from Inverness - It genuinely felt like it had been a 3 hr + journey!

 

[D6130]

On the Western Highland lines to Oban/Fort William/Mallaig - the Fort William/Mallaig lines were 40 max until 1979,

Glenfinnan-Mallaig was always 30 mph max in my days in Scotland (pre-1983)....and I believe it still is, although there may be one or two slight easements for Sprinters.

 

[hexagon789]

Have to agree there, I've done the Kyle line once and while it is a beautiful scenic line, it's slow speed does become rather tedious after a while. It also meant my friends in Kyle often preferred to drive than take the ScotRail service as it is quicker.

I have to say I've just looked it up and it's only a 2hr 46 journey from Inverness - It genuinely felt like it had been a 3 hr + journey!

Sorry, I meant the Far North to Wick/Thurso with the talk of County March Summit and 90mph running for 158s. I agree re Kyle, its probably fast enough!

Glenfinnan-Mallaig was always 30 mph max in my days in Scotland (pre-1983)....and I believe it still is, although there may be one or two slight easements for Sprinters.

Was more talking about the Mallaig line as a whole. 40 overall, but no yes higher than 30 beyond the 13 mile post (1977, 1979 and 1982 SAs)

Today loco-hauled trains have the same ceilings, but Sprinters can travel as high as 55mph.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Was more talking about the Mallaig line as a whole. 40 overall, but no yes higher than 30 beyond the 13 mile post (1977, 1979 and 1982 SAs)

With some vey liberal interpretation of these speed limits it was not unknown for the evening train from Mallaig, when heavily delayed awaiting the ferry from Skye, to cover the 41 or miles to For William in just minutes over one hour!

 

[hexagon789]

With some vey liberal interpretation of these speed limits it was not unknown for the evening train from Mallaig, when heavily delayed awaiting the ferry from Skye, to cover the 41 or miles to For William in just minutes over one hour!

It was not unknown for the limit in steam days to be somewhat exceeded

More so south of Fort William admittedly, I've seen a few "interesting" logs.

 

[Unstoppable]

With some vey liberal interpretation of these speed limits it was not unknown for the evening train from Mallaig, when heavily delayed awaiting the ferry from Skye, to cover the 41 or miles to For William in just minutes over one hour!

Oh yes. I have heard stories from old retired hands of Fort William - Mallaig and return in under 2 hours back in loco hauled days long before black boxes... Hold on to your seats boys