Kingswear - Paignton

[Flinn Reed]

Could there be a case to introduce occasional or seasonal GWR passenger services along the Dartmouth Steam Railway to Kingswear - similar GWR's services along the steam railway from Taunton, or the limited service on the Okehampton branch?

This could perhaps take place as an extension of an Exmouth-Paignton service, providing a through service to Torquay, Newton Abbot and Exeter.

Dartmouth (across the river from the Kingswear terminus) can be a popular destination during the Summer, particularly around the Regatta. Churston Station is also quite close to Brixham, which is quite a large town and busy in the summer.

 

[TheWalrus]

Could there be a case to introduce occasional or seasonal GWR passenger services along the Dartmouth Steam Railway to Kingswear - similar GWR's services along the steam railway from Taunton, or the limited service on the Okehampton branch?

This could perhaps take place as an extension of an Exmouth-Paignton service, providing a through service to Torquay, Newton Abbot and Exeter.

Dartmouth (across the river from the Kingswear terminus) can be a popular destination during the Summer, particularly around the Regatta. Churston Station is also quite close to Brixham, which is quite a large town and busy in the summer.

Definitely a good idea if possible and something I have considered myself.

 

[Ted172]

This could perhaps take place as an extension of an Exmouth-Paignton service, providing a through service to Torquay, Newton Abbot and Exeter.

Good idea although i think it would be more sensible to have services shuttle between Paignton and Kingswear so that if there's disruption on the national rail network, it wouldn't directly affect the Dartmouth Steam Railway. Also summer services would be a good source of revenue for both GWR and Dartmouth Steam Railway.

 

[matt]

What would be the point though? The GWR service to Taunton for example provides a connection to the West Somerset Railway that is otherwise only accessible by car or bus. The Paignton line is already accessible by train and a cross platform connection to the steam service.

 

[221129]

and a cross platform connection to the steam service.

No it's not. They are 2 completely separate stations.

 

[matt]

No it's not. They are 2 completely separate stations.

Which are right next door to each other.

 

[edwin_m]

Which are right next door to each other.

As far as I remember you have to go out of the main line station then walk round over the level crossing or its footbridge.

With GWR's pool of units most in demand during the summer season, it's better to use them on workings such as Minehead and Okehampton that bring new passengers to the railway, rather than duplicating something that people can already do for the minor inconvenience of this walk.

 

[bluenoxid]

You might want to speak with the local MPs who have put a bid in for Restoring your Railway funding for Churston and Goodrington gaining a mainline connection.

 

[MarkyT]

As far as I remember you have to go out of the main line station then walk round over the level crossing or its footbridge.

With GWR's pool of units most in demand during the summer season, it's better to use them on workings such as Minehead and Okehampton that bring new passengers to the railway, rather than duplicating something that people can already do for the minor inconvenience of this walk.

The steam railway has always had a relatively short operating day, and while it has one of the longest operating seasons of any heritage railway in the UK, it doesn't operate all year round. A couple of early morning GWR DMUs and service into late evening during the summer could work during steam service, extended throughout the day by a shuttle when no steam is running. Unlike many heritage railways, colour light TCB signalling is centrally controlled so only requires one member of staff to be present at Britannia Crossing to run the full service at any time. The connection between NR and DVR* metals at Paignton however is not properly signalled on the NR side though. Although a design for a proper route setting connection across the boundary was prepared during the early 1990s resignalling, it was never commissioned and a non-interlocked ground frame connection remains on the NR side which requires a MOM to cooperate and secure the NR end of the points and verbal authority to traverse. Fine for irregular summer steam excursions, but not practical for multiple daily movements. *Note: The railway is still referred to as the Dart Valley Railway in operating publications and presumably the legal agreements.

https://tillyweb.biz/gallery/bb/britannia.htm

UK Signal Boxes
Britannia Crossing, Devon
Paignton & Dartmouth Steam Railway

 

[221129]

Paignton South Crossing might pose some issues as well...

 

[matt]

Paignton South Crossing might pose some issues as well...

Has that still got a local crossing keeper? Are they NR or PDSR?

 

[221129]

Has that still got a local crossing keeper? Are they NR or PDSR?

Normally it is done by the train guard.

 

[MarkyT]

Has that still got a local crossing keeper? Are they NR or PDSR?

Locally operated from the ground by traincrew or shunter/MOM. There are independent sets of controls for the steam railway and NR. Sometimes NR posts a member of staff there to operate it when it's busy. The barriers auto-raise after a train has passed.

 

[Flinn Reed]

As far as I remember you have to go out of the main line station then walk round over the level crossing or its footbridge.

With GWR's pool of units most in demand during the summer season, it's better to use them on workings such as Minehead and Okehampton that bring new passengers to the railway, rather than duplicating something that people can already do for the minor inconvenience of this walk.

My suggestion is not to do with the convenience of connecting to the steam railway, but for GWR to provide an alternative service over the steam railway route to Kingswear. i.e. for passengers needing to travel towards Churston, Kingswear, Dartmouth or Brixham, but who do not want to pay the very expensive fares for the steam experience.

 

[MarkyT]

My suggestion is not to do with the convenience of connecting to the steam railway, but for GWR to provide an alternative service over the steam railway route to Kingswear. i.e. for passengers needing to travel towards Churston, Kingswear, Dartmouth or Brixham, but who do not want to pay the very expensive fares for the steam experience.

From the steam railways' point of view, any such service mustn't abstract from their main source of visitor revenue. If the tourists found out they could get the scenary and destination elements of the tour without the paying the premium for the steam haulage, many might opt for that instead. A way that could work for the augmented early/late service concept I described up-thread could be to have cheaper fares available with one leg out or back on the extra morning or evening DMU services with the other leg also valid on a steam service during the day (or alternatively via a local parallel bus operator). An out and back on steam services alone might be available during the day using a locals discount railcard which some lines operate, only available to anyone who can prove they're resident within a defined area nearby (maybe with the possibility to take a small party traveling both ways together at the discount). All others would have to pay the full standard tourist fare for a single or return by steam. A issue on the Dartmouth line, and other steam railways, is that there isn't sufficient track capacity to run additional services during the day in the peak season.

 

[David Goddard]

Can see merit in a couple of through services in the morning and evening, (such as 0700 and 0900 Kingswear to Exeter and 1600 and 1800 return) outside of DVR operations, but that's about it really, leaving the heritage operation to get on with its normal service in between.

 

[David 90825]

You might want to speak with the local MPs who have put a bid in for Restoring your Railway funding for Churston and Goodrington gaining a mainline connection.

The introduction of an hourly service from Exmouth as far as Churston was discussed in ATOC's Connecting Communities report, published in June 2009. That report made it clear that services would have to flex in order to accommodate the peak holiday steam services. Unfortunately I do not know if any discussions took place with the steam railway about this proposal.

 

[MarkyT]

Can see merit in a couple of through services in the morning and evening, (such as 0700 and 0900 Kingswear to Exeter and 1600 and 1800 return) outside of DVR operations, but that's about it really, leaving the heritage operation to get on with its normal service in between.

That could also allow the possibility of a later return from Dartmouth, for say an early evening drink or meal. That could be a useful benefit for the steam railway and businesses in Dartmouth attracting extra riders and visitors. The public transport situation is rather dire at the moment, with the last local buses from Kingswear to Brixham or Paignton around 19:00, even in the height of summer.