Kings cross thameslink + question

[ATW Alex 101]

Might be needed in the infastructure fourum but oh well..

anyway Was st pancras thameslink built directly on the site of kings cross thameslink? if not where was it built?? I will have a look on disused stations to see any results.

Also there was a station that shut a few years ago and was served by silverlink?? Could anyone shed some light?

 

[atomicdanny]

St Pancras thameslink station was built underneath the main st pancras station and the kings cross thameslink platforms are still there (closed though!)

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Maybe your question does relate more to infrastructure, but my first thought about the question was: "Does this question justify a whole new thread? Isn't it very easy to find this out?"

Here is the station on Google Street view :
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=london&aq=&sll=55.507044,-5.090546&sspn=0.068146,0.20256&g=kings+cross&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Westminster,+London,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.53092,-0.120635&spn=0,0.01266&z=17&layer=c&cbll=51.530926,-0.120489&panoid=bOTXbAXfDqlZRz0IAyzN_g&cbp=12,155.2,,0,1.34

Here is the answer on Wikipedia :- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King's_Cross_Thameslink_railway_station

Here's the Thameslink website :-
http://www.thameslinkprogramme.co.uk/cms/pages/home

Hope these help you

 

[Fred26]

The trains still go through Thameslink, with their 'Do Not Alight Here' signs. Very narrow platforms.

 

[lm321412]

Also there was a station that shut a few years ago and was served by silverlink?? Could anyone shed some light?

North Woolwich?, Silvertown?, Watford West?

Take your pick... You can add Custom House to it if you like as thats DLR only now...

 

[Waddon]

Is St. Pancras Thameslink actually directly below St. Pancras station proper? I know the entrance is, but you go down and to the left to get to the Southbound platform, which would kind of put it under the road outside? Or am I wrong?

 

[Fred26]

Is St. Pancras Thameslink actually directly below St. Pancras station proper? I know the entrance is, but you go down and to the left to get to the Southbound platform, which would kind of put it under the road outside? Or am I wrong?

Well, there's only one entrance, so it's neither here nor there. It's below St Pancras and that's it, isn't it?
I don't mean to sound abrupt. As far as I can see it's pretty much directly below St Pancras station... which leads me on to - are there any platforms at ground level at St Pancras? The Eurostar, MML and Southern are all upstairs. FCC downstairs. Or am I missing something?

 

[EM2]

The Northbound platform is under the middle of Midland Road, which is why it has a separate lift. The Southbound platform is just about under the edge of the station.
And no, there are no ground level platforms at STP.

 

[ChrisCooper]

It depends on what you mean by "under" the station. It's not under the main part of the station, but I think some outbuildings had to be demolished to open up the hole where the station has been built. Basically the line curves sharply right after the old Thameslink station, passing under Euston Road and St Pancras forecourt then straightens up to run alongside the station, under Midland Road, almost parallel to the main platforms. It's here on the straight that the new station was built. The line then passes under the St Pancras extension before curving again and emerging alongside the MML.

 

[bnm]

Part of the St Pancras Thameslink 'station' is under the main terminus, although parts of it are beyond the boundary of the above ground footprint of the main station; under Midland Road and to the north of the extended trainshed.

More information on the layout can be found here.

 

[ChrisCooper]

As yes, I wasn't thinking that although the original straight was not under the main station, the new Thameslink station does extend under the extension to the main station. I'd forgotten how much the curve went under the hotel and station too, although I do remember sitting in the cafe that used to be there and hearing trains rumbling around the curve (I imagine you still can in places, although I've not hung around there since the rebuilding).

 

[Aictos]

Although Kings Cross Thameslink is closed to regular passenger services, it is still used for emergency evacuation purposes hence why it hasn't been fully demolished.

 

[ChrisCooper]

Out of interest, what scenario would it be used for evacuation where a train could not continue to either the new station or Farringdon? Is it actually needed, or is it just a case that it might as well be left just in case in might be needed?

 

[Mike395]

Out of interest, what scenario would it be used for evacuation where a train could not continue to either the new station or Farringdon? Is it actually needed, or is it just a case that it might as well be left just in case in might be needed?

I should imagine the latter, plus IIRC it's used for emergency services training on occasion

(on a completely unrelated note - woop 100th post!)

 

[EPB on Tour]

Also there was a station that shut a few years ago and was served by silverlink?? Could anyone shed some light?

Primrose Hill ?

North London Railways,the previous guise of Silverlink had a crew depot at St Pancras on Platform 7,but it was unique,as the crews didn't actually sign St Pancras station.

 

[lm321412]

Primrose Hill ?

North London Railways,the previous guise of Silverlink had a crew depot at St Pancras on Platform 7,but it was unique,as the crews didn't actually sign St Pancras station.

Primrose Hill was never served by North London Railways or Silverlink, closed in 1992.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

When the St Pancras Thameslink station was built, was the track alignment altered to the right?

Because I'm wondering about the empty tunnel mouths clearly visible at the north end of the station just off to the left of the tunnel where the line runs.

 

[Mojo]

Although Kings Cross Thameslink is closed to regular passenger services, it is still used for emergency evacuation purposes hence why it hasn't been fully demolished.

You can also use the entrance from the street as access for the Tube, signs within the station refer to it as the ''Pentonville Road'' exit. I'm not sure what the opening hours are, but it's only open during the day and early evening on Weekdays.

 

[DavidBusDriver]

Regarding those tunnels, they are the entrance/exit for the single-bore tunnels that will link up the Thameslink route to the Great Northern route, not exactly sure where the exit is near the GN side as I don't think it is visible yet, but they seem to be getting worked on at the moment in preparation for tracklaying/wiring etc.

 

[philjo]

When the St Pancras Thameslink station was built, was the track alignment altered to the right?

Because I'm wondering about the empty tunnel mouths clearly visible at the north end of the station just off to the left of the tunnel where the line runs.

I think that they are the new tunnels built that will be used to connect the Thameslink core to the GN route, so will be grade separated at St P. There isn't any track in place yet as far as I know - certainly not at the ECML end.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
When approaching KX you could see where the link will come out - when you come out of Copenhagen Tunnel, it is on the right just after the KX incline.
Not looked recently, but a while back you could see 2 concrete lined cuttings going downhill off to the right - one for each track.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Thanks; I'll have a look next time I'm travelling off the Cross.

 

[swt_passenger]

Out of interest, what scenario would it be used for evacuation where a train could not continue to either the new station or Farringdon? Is it actually needed, or is it just a case that it might as well be left just in case in might be needed?

I think it is probably worth keeping because at the eventual 24 tph through the core section, a serious incident (something major immobilising a train) at Farringdon or St Pancras LL could easily leave trains stuck between stations. They'll be about 2.5 mins apart, and the running time between the two stations is somewhat longer as it's still a relatively slow route. If my theory is right trains could easily be at Blackfriars, City T/L, Farringdon, in the tunnel south of the old station and at St Pancras all at the same time. Similarly southbound.

I doubt they'd provide an emergency evacuation point if it wasn't already there, but they might as well keep it.

 

[Minstral25]

Slightly off-topic but why did they build the station so far from most of the connections at Kings Cross/St Pancreas, when they had a perfectly good station already in the right place.

The new station is an inconvenient long walk from bus stops, tubes and Kings Cross connections - the most likely to be needed from the Thameslink station. Whereas the old station was just a short walk to all of those connections.

 

[Mojo]

Slightly off-topic but why did they build the station so far from most of the connections at Kings Cross/St Pancreas, when they had a perfectly good station already in the right place.

Huh? I would say St Pancras Low Level is much more convenient than Kings Cross Thameslink ever was. Not to mention the narrow platforms and poor passenger facilities at the old station, to get to Kings Cross or St Pancras terminal stations involved crossing a busy road and using a narrow pavement and even the closest Tube line (the Victoria) was a very long walk away down that tunnel.

Now you can come out through the gates at St Pancras Low Level and be standing on platform 9 at Kings Cross within 90 seconds or on the subsurface tube platforms within 3 minutes. There's also an escalator within 30 seconds walk taking you right down to one of the three Underground ticket halls.

 

[swt_passenger]

The old KX Thameslink couldn't possibly be extended to 12 car either. Resiting was the only option.

 

[jon0844]

Well if you happened to work next door to the old station, I guess it would be considered a bad move - but it's right inside St Pancras, which will soon be almost linked to King's Cross (it already is via the subway and a crossing) when the new entrance opens to the West.

It is a bit of a walk to some lines, but it was from the old station too - and it was a nightmare trying to get on a train if you got there after people were alighting and coming up the steps. In fact, there's really not much good to say about the station at all - other than it being kept there for emergencies.

Now, I'll ask this without having checked (lazy) but when they did the work on the new station, did they re-route the line? If so, could the old lines ever be used to bypass the St Pancras station - perhaps for ECS moves or when there's disruption?

Apologies if it's a dumb question, and I know that they'd have to cross what will become the branch to the GN line if they do exist, causing other problems.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Huh? I would say St Pancras Low Level is much more convenient than Kings Cross Thameslink ever was. Not to mention the narrow platforms and poor passenger facilities at the old station, to get to Kings Cross or St Pancras terminal stations involved crossing a busy road and using a narrow pavement and even the closest Tube line (the Victoria) was a very long walk away down that tunnel.

Now you can come out through the gates at St Pancras Low Level and be standing on platform 9 at Kings Cross within 90 seconds or on the subsurface tube platforms within 3 minutes. There's also an escalator within 30 seconds walk taking you right down to one of the three Underground ticket halls.

Agreed! Also Kings Cross Thameslink was not particulary easy to find for those that had not used the station before where as the replacement is much better sign posted.

As for having to walk through St Pancras station whats wrong with a bit of exercise? I think those who use the busier tube stations each day would frankly be amazed if they knew how much walking was involved to make connections / reach street level!

Finally, i might be guilty of being rather cynical here but i'm sure the shops and businesses at St Pancras are rather pleased that you have to walk past them to reach EMT, Thameslink and South Eastern platforms!

 

[Aictos]

You can also use the entrance from the street as access for the Tube, signs within the station refer to it as the ''Pentonville Road'' exit. I'm not sure what the opening hours are, but it's only open during the day and early evening on Weekdays.

Caught me by surprise when I used the Victoria line from Finsbury Park to Kings Cross expecting to leave via the joint Kings Cross St Pancras complex and ended up exiting using the old Kings Cross Thameslink station which is a graveyard compared to 2006 when I had to commute to Blackfriars from there.

 

[W-on-Sea]

Kings Cross Thameslink was unbearably overcrowded in the rush hours, even apart from the impossibility of extending the platforms. Its replacement is better in almost every way (which is not to say that the long walk to other underground lines is not a great nuisance - although that said, the walk to all the tube lines apart from the Victoria from the old station was not that short, either)

I'm fairly sure the line was not rerouted for the rebuilding (despite the lengthy periods of closure for engineering works) - I seem to recall the "box" for the station was put in long before it was actually fully constructed,

 

[jopsuk]

If you look very carefully (and know what you're looking for) from Circle/H&C/Met line trains, you can see not only into Kings Cross Thameslink, but also the remains of the platforms that used to be on the Underground lines at that location- much much longer since they were moved though.