Kings Cross Platform Rules

[TUC]

I do think it is a very good thing that, from platform to ticketing options, so much information is now available to the public rather than being dependent upon staff whom (not all, but too often) seem to lack interest in checking information which is clearly available. The ability to circumvent such unhelpfulness is clearly in passengers' interests.

 

[jon0844]

The mid-platform bridge makes sense in a world where you want to distribute passengers along the full length of the train (rather than cramming in through the first Standard Class door. It makes far less sense when most trains are heavily reserved in practically all carriages and there are very few un-reserved shorter distance trains using the main sheds.

There are many more 5-car short trains across four operators (often double-docked) rather than ubiquitous ‘long’ HSTs and Mark IV sets in days of old.

To me, the bridge in the middle is really only for people who are already upstairs, or perhaps someone who enters the station from the St Pancras side and wants to quickly get to platforms towards 0. I can't see any real benefit with leaving the station by the bridge as it simply isn't big enough and the lifts are too small for those with bags. If they had a second escalator, you're now risking the sorts of accidents that are common elsewhere with large bags falling down.

As I said before, I think the bridge is useful as it is now and it's beneficial that a lot of people don't actively seek to use it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2026 ==

Some stations, including St Pancras EMR platforms, now have a line on the screen that (sometimes) says "The train to form this service is currently between St Albans and Radlett" or whatever.

That is very useful and hopefully becomes a thing in more places.

An "Expected boarding at <time>" might be useful too.

Definitely. Knowing you have a bit more time gives some reassurance, lowers stress levels and even allows for the tenants at the station to potentially earn some money as it now means some people will think they do have time to grab a coffee, or a bite to eat, after all.

 

[zwk500]

That is very useful and hopefully becomes a thing in more places.

It's quite common across the network now.

Definitely. Knowing you have a bit more time gives some reassurance, lowers stress levels and even allows for the tenants at the station to potentially earn some money as it now means some people will think they do have time to grab a coffee, or a bite to eat, after all.

Although when that time comes and boarding hasn't yet started, it just makes the frustration hit harder. So there's a double-edged sword to it. I've seen 'boarding expected' times at Euston and got quite far beyond the time stated on the board without the train having even got into the platform (checked on berth data maps).

 

[IlkleyRunner]

IIRC it is quite constricted- one, maybe two gates?- one member of staff, and the lifts and escalators (down?) quite small- maybe it would have been okay for passengers being spread out rather than a 'swarm'- there's really not enough room on the footbridge for people waiting for a lift down. I like it myself- quite quiet!!

Two normal and one wide gate I think. The lifts are not the speediest so most people using the bridge use the escalators. And the lifts are often out of action! I wonder why they didn't make the bridge wider? It wouldn't have changed much of the station redesign.

 

[jon0844]

Although when that time comes and boarding hasn't yet started, it just makes the frustration hit harder. So there's a double-edged sword to it. I've seen 'boarding expected' times at Euston and got quite far beyond the time stated on the board without the train having even got into the platform (checked on berth data maps).

There's also a risk if you just add xx minutes on to a service so it shows a new time of <departure time+delay> that you might turn up and find the train has gone because the delay wasn't so severe after all, and there's no obligation to purposely delay the train if a fault is fixed, it arrives sooner, another driver is found or whatever.

There would be something in having to at least hold the train for the period of delay that was added, even if it was just a prediction. Then a train can't leave 'early' which would anger people even more, and potentially cause all sort of issues with things like delay repay etc.

If a train is going to be further delayed, perhaps a decision needs to be made on when to revise the estimate to - but also ensure it doesn't result in the same problem.

 

[sharpener]

There would be something in having to at least hold the train for the period of delay that was added, even if it was just a prediction. Then a train can't leave 'early' which would anger people even more, and potentially cause all sort of issues with things like delay repay etc.

Yes the idea has merit but I can't see it happening because if there are incoming trains desperate for a platform then not despatching an outbound one on a technicality could have severe knock-on effects.

 

[jon0844]

Yes the idea has merit but I can't see it happening because if there are incoming trains desperate for a platform then not despatching an outbound one on a technicality could have severe knock-on effects.

It's definitely a problem. I am not sure there are any easy answers either, because when things go badly wrong there's going to be confusion and limited options to deal with them. Those who have a little extra information have to be aware that not everyone else does, and that the solution isn't necessarily to give everyone that same information when it can prove to be incorrect. Even tracking an inbound train doesn't 100% guarantee it's going to form the next working. 99% of the time is fine, but you're going to experience that 1% at some point.

 

[zwk500]

It's definitely a problem. I am not sure there are any easy answers either, because when things go badly wrong there's going to be confusion and limited options to deal with them.

A lot of the problems are solved by not advertising an expected time until a certain threshold of confidence is reached:
E.g.
1. Have fleet confirmed the next working of the inbound, with or without set swaps?
2. Have crewing confirmed the outbound driver is available?
3. Has the inbound train passed the problem area?
4. is there anything stuck in front of it that is likely to slow it down significantly?

Only at point 3 do you advertise an 'expected time' on the board, and consider point 4 when you do so. Points 1/2 can be confirmed in either order as required. If that means that 'boarding expected' is only advertised a few minutes before it begins, so be it.

 

[Spur365]

If platforms were signed minimum 20 minutes before departure there would likely be far fewer people checking the platforms online, however given the regularity when it's 5-10 minutes before departure the platform goes on the board, paying customers are sourcing information where is is available as the railway isn't providing it.

The railway can choose how they want to communicate, but one of the realities of modern communication is that information is much harder to keep secret, so they'd probably be better announcing the platforms and getting people spread out down them, than having a huddle of people looking at their phones by the barriers.

Depends which company we want to talk about as unfortunately each company is different and work to different rules.

LNER do 20 mins boarding, subject to the train running. Boarding of trains before the arrival was tested but not possible with the train requiring cleaning, stocking and various PTI risks with adjacent / thin platforms like P4/5. Around 8 LNER trains and hour boarding and alighting uncontrolled would be a nightmare at pinch point areas. Often two trains share same island, if the platforms were full the people couldn't get off safely.

GTR do auto boarding and well take your luck with that. Turnaround alone can be 10-15 mins.

Open access go for 15 mins, GC being the worst offender.

It all serves up for juggling plates on sticks most the time.

 

[xotGD]

I can't see any real benefit with leaving the station by the bridge

I exit via the bridge if I'm headed to St Pancras. Except of course if the lift from the platform is broken. Saves a big double back and also gives the option of popping in to Greggs!

Very few people do this, but one of the barriers is always configured for exiting.

 

[YorksLad12]

I've been using KGX for about 40 odd years now, and even with the occasional chaos there currently it's much much better than it was before the rebuild. My impression is that relatively few people use the bridge - not even all of the people in the first class lounge which is just beside it. It mostly is those who know where to go - the bulk tend to stand in front of the southern departure screen waiting for the off. Some know they can go through before that (even without access to platform info) since the train shows on the front of platform indicators at the same time as the screens. And of course now almost all of the train have electronic destination boards themselves people just go hunting. None of this really matters in the normal course of events since the departures and arrivals are staggered and there's plenty of space. It's only really when two arrivals turn up late on adjacent platforms and people know they're supposed to be the trains they're leaving on as well that things can get crushed. Again just an impression but they don't seem to care if they've put a barrier up at the front end that some people come across the bridge simply because so few do. They can't really manage the bridge easily as there's usually only one person there, and it serves all of the platforms and not just the ones they are trying to manage.

My issue with KX is that departures and arrivals aren't really separated. If the departure from P4 is called at the same time as the arrival on P7, you've got people crossing each other at right angles. The other peoblem is that people always head for the nearest gate, when moving a feet feet to the left (entering or exiting) and finding an unused gate can be quicker.

The bridge isn't much use to me either when I travel First Class; I'd have to walk five carriages back down the platform.

I've always thought that the boards next to the gate line should be in reverse order, so that the train being called for boarding is closest to the gates.

I exit via the bridge if I'm headed to St Pancras. Except of course if the lift from the platform is broken. Saves a big double back and also gives the option of popping in to Greggs!

Very few people do this, but one of the barriers is always configured for exiting.

Never thought of that!

 

[edwin_m]

I've always thought that the boards next to the gate line should be in reverse order, so that the train being called for boarding is closest to the gates.

IF you're referring to the main departure screen, there would be the problem that a few of the trains go from 9 and 10 near the left hand end of the screen, and some people looking at that screen from the mezzanine will be heading left for 0-8 as well.

 

[andy33gmail]

The bridge isn't much use to me either when I travel First Class; I'd have to walk five carriages back down the platform.

Ah, you're that one person who uses that entire coach

I think inserting passengers at the buffer end seems more logical to me - since people who are in plenty of time can move down the train to have more space - and people cutting it fine will infill. Therefore they would be better to have the bridge at the far end (not middle) to dispose of the alighting passengers; if you forgive the use of customer service language.

You might argue you could flip my argument - deposit alighting passengers onto the road & drop boarding passengers off the bridge and it would be equally true. However everyone will arrive at once, whereas not everyone will board at once (except at Kings Cross when the train arrives 2 seconds before it leaves)

 

[Western Sunset]

Think 1st class passengers might be miffed if they had to walk to a footbridge at the north end of the platform to leave the station.

Unless LNER put 1st class at the north end of their trains...

 

[andy33gmail]

Think 1st class passengers might be miffed if they had to walk to a footbridge at the north end of the platform to leave the station.

Unless LNER put 1st class at the north end of their trains...

Or build a 1st class lounge and permit egress through it

 

[mike57]

Depends which company we want to talk about as unfortunately each company is different and work to different rules.

To me this is at least part of the problem. At a major station every operator should be operating to the same rules with a common information feed and 'backroom support'. OA operators would also have to fall in line. Hence my comment that 'GBR' should be running and manning the major stations, even if responsibility for smaller ones remains elsewhere for the moment.

 

[edwin_m]

I think inserting passengers at the buffer end seems more logical to me - since people who are in plenty of time can move down the train to have more space - and people cutting it fine will infill. Therefore they would be better to have the bridge at the far end (not middle) to dispose of the alighting passengers; if you forgive the use of customer service language.

That might be ideal but it's not practical. How do you link a bridge at the north end back to the concourse?

Also the platforms are quite narrow. The existing lift and stairs reduce them considerably but are themselves far too narrow to cope with a trainload of alighting passengers safely. Even putting them at the platform ends wouldn't work, some are very narrow and people would still have to get past the stairs to get to the lift (or vice versa) or to access the bit of the platform beyond as the ends don't line up.

 

[Haywain]

Think 1st class passengers might be miffed if they had to walk to a footbridge at the north end of the platform to leave the station.

Unless LNER put 1st class at the north end of their trains...

The footbridge isn't at the north end of the platforms.

 

[BrianW]

The footbridge isn't at the north end of the platforms.

Western Sunset was following on for this contribution by andy33gmail

'I think inserting passengers at the buffer end seems more logical to me - since people who are in plenty of time can move down the train to have more space - and people cutting it fine will infill. Therefore they would be better to have the bridge at the far end (not middle) to dispose of the alighting passengers; if you forgive the use of customer service language.'

IIUC the present footbridge replaced the original in more or less the same position as was.

 

[Haywain]

IIUC the present footbridge replaced the original in more or less the same position as was.

That's correct.

 

[YorksLad12]

Western Sunset was following on for this contribution by andy33gmail

'I think inserting passengers at the buffer end seems more logical to me - since people who are in plenty of time can move down the train to have more space - and people cutting it fine will infill. Therefore they would be better to have the bridge at the far end (not middle) to dispose of the alighting passengers; if you forgive the use of customer service language.'

IIUC the present footbridge replaced the original in more or less the same position as was.

From memory, the escalators come down roughly around coach F, if First is at the buffer end as normal. If the set was reversed, you'd be closer to First class. Equally, if you know you're in a 2x5 set, and you're booked in D or E, you'd be close enough as well.

I suspect most people will still want to enter from the concourse area because that's where everyone else is and they follow the herd.

 

[skyhigh]

Definitely. Knowing you have a bit more time gives some reassurance, lowers stress levels and even allows for the tenants at the station to potentially earn some money as it now means some people will think they do have time to grab a coffee, or a bite to eat, after all.

I've just checked an old photo, and the departure boards definitely used to show an estimated boarding time. Do they no longer do this?

 

[Sakuradori]

I've just checked an old photo, and the departure boards definitely used to show an estimated boarding time. Do they no longer do this?

They still do.

 

[IanXC]

Hence my comment that 'GBR' should be running and manning the major stations, even if responsibility for smaller ones remains elsewhere for the moment.

How are you making this work?

GBR East Coast stations will be LNER Station Management team (11 is it station teams?) + Network Rail East Coast Major Stations (1 = Kings Cross).

Who are you giving the 'smaller ones' to?

 

[mike57]

Who are you giving the 'smaller ones' to?

I am not giving them to anyone, but I think GBR should be responsible for all passenger facing stuff including stations, so you either do a major change across the whole network or you do a phased change, hence my comment 'for the moment'.The current ToC based approach has created a disjointed and siloed service, particularly at major stations where there are multiple operators.

I have personally found myself stranded at York around midnight as a result of TPE failures, and was only able to get home (40+ mile taxi) because of a different ToC member of staff doing something which they maybe shouldn't have to help me out.

 

[JamesT]

I am not giving them to anyone, but I think GBR should be responsible for all passenger facing stuff including stations, so you either do a major change across the whole network or you do a phased change, hence my comment 'for the moment'.The current ToC based approach has created a disjointed and siloed service, particularly at major stations where there are multiple operators.

I have personally found myself stranded at York around midnight as a result of TPE failures, and was only able to get home (40+ mile taxi) because of a different ToC member of staff doing something which they maybe shouldn't have to help me out.

Once GBR is set up then they will all be GBR. Though GBR will have a regionalised structure, so there’s no guarantee there won’t be inconsistencies between different regions.

 

[jon0844]

Once GBR is set up then they will all be GBR. Though GBR will have a regionalised structure, so there’s no guarantee there won’t be inconsistencies between different regions.

TLGN (GTR) will be part of the Sussex region, LNER looks like it will be part of its own sector (like under BR) and then you'll have the open access operators, so I suspect there's still going to be a control room with lots of desks and all under the control of GBR for general station management.

I am sure things will be mostly the same as now, including things like delay attribution.

 

[side effect]

At 63 I would just go back home even if it was the beginning of a holiday. Love trains but they are a nightmare and those who need them for work have my full sympathy.

 

[mike57]

so there’s no guarantee there won’t be inconsistencies between different regions.

Not bothered on a regional basis, but inconsistancies within the same station are a cause of confusion. Having multiple TOCs each with there own staff to deal with stuff like getting passengers home after disruption, each with a different approach just seems silly. In the case I alluded to there were no TPE staff to be found anywhere. Another TOC staff member made arrangements to get me home. Not sure how, and was probably bending th rules, but it is these sort of incidents which cause negative comments about the railways and the current structure.

At 63 I would just go back home even if it was the beginning of a holiday.

We recently abandoned a day trip as the first train was cancelled and the knock on effect meant it was no longer a viable trip, but we did get a full refund with no problem

 

[Haywain]

In the case I alluded to there were no TPE staff to be found anywhere. Another TOC staff member made arrangements to get me home. Not sure how, and was probably bending th rules, but it is these sort of incidents which cause negative comments about the railways and the current structure.

TPE doesn't have a significant staff presence at York as the station is managed by LNER, so it would be expected that any assistance you received would be from LNER. They would not be breaking any rules in getting you home - if anything not doing so would be bending rules. It sounds like the relevant company/staff were aware that the National Rail Conditions of Travel require that:

any Train Company will, where it reasonably can, provide you with alternative means of travel to your destination,